Oral history interview with Lisa White, 2019

University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Transcript Index
Search This Index
Go X

0:15 - Interview introduction

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: So if you could start by please saying and spelling your name.

0:34 - Biographical information

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses her early life in the brewing industry and the start of White Labs,

3:59 - Creation of White Labs

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: So it was in 1995 that y'all started up White Labs. What was the lead up to that?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the lead up to and creation of White Labs.

Keywords: Home Brew Market

5:49 - Yeast market during the 1990s

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: What was the state of the market when you all were earning? As far as talking about yeast. I could be wrong but the first liquid pitchable yeast was from you all. What was the yeast market at that time?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the state of the yeast market in San Diego, California around the time White Labs was created.

Keywords: 1990s; AleSmith Brewing; Russian River Brewing Company; Stone Brewing; Vinnie Cilurzo

7:25 - Describing White Labs

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: How would you describe White Labs for people who don't know what you do?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses what White Labs is and its community outreach.

Keywords: american society of brewing chemist; Beer for Boobs; community engagement; Community outreach; community service; Education; Habitat for Humanity

10:21 - Choosing Asheville

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: I think in 2017 that Asheville was selected as the east coast location for White Labs. Can you talk a little bit about what led you to make that decision as far as to why Asheville and the lead up to that?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses why the company chose to build their east coast location in Asheville, North Carolina.

Keywords: Asheville-Buncombe Technical Community College; community; legislation

13:08 - Kitchen and tap

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: You already mentioned opening the kitchen and tap - is that sort of thing unique to the Asheville location? Yes. What sort of led you down the path to decide that you wanted to do the kitchen and tap with your own food and your beer and that sort of thing?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses White Lab's choice to have a kitchen and tap in their Asheville location and the difference between San Diego and Asheville beer legislation.

Keywords: legislation

15:30 - Beer flights

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Another thing you mentioned, I personally think is really interesting, is the flights.

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the process of creating different beer flights.

17:45 - Beer versus bread and working with yeast for beer

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Would you say there is any difference between beer yeast and bread yeast?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the difference between bread and beer yeast and how White Labs works with yeast to create beer.

19:35 - Community engagement

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: You were already talking a little bit about your fundraising and community engagement work like Beer for Boobs, would you like to talk a little bit more about that?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses White Lab's community engagement.

Keywords: beer for boobs; camp cedar cliff; community; community engagement; community outreach; community service

21:49 - Future for White Labs

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: How do you see White Labs, Asheville specifically if you'd like, growing in the future?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the innovative work happening currently at White Labs and shares her thoughts for its future.

24:18 - Changes in the brewing industry and trends in the industry today

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: You've been adjacent to or in the brewing industry for a long time. How would you say the brewing scene has changed since you first got into it?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the changes she has seen in the brewing industry and her favorite/least favorite trends in the industry today.

Keywords: community

26:02 - White Labs in the North Carolina brewing community and the future for the beer industry

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: In what role do you see White Labs playing in the Asheville and the North Carolina community?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses the future role she sees White Labs playing in the Asheville and North Carolina brewing community, and the future for the beer industry.

27:54 - Favorite NC beers and White Labs' signature yeast

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Do you have a favorite beer from a North Carolina brewery?

Segment Synopsis: Ms. White discusses her favorite NC beer, trends in the beer industry, White Labs' signature yeast strain, and her favorite White Labs strain.

Keywords: Beer for Boobs

31:05 - Interview conclusion

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: That's all I have. Is there anything I missed that you wanted to add?

0:00

Richard Cox: So, if you can start by please saying and spelling your name.

Lisa White: Sure. Lisa White. L-I-S-A, W-H-I-T-E.

Richard Cox: Okay. Today is Friday March 1, 2019. We are at White Labs in Asheville, North Carolina. I'm Richard Cox talking today with Lisa White, Vice President, as part of the Well Crafted NC Project. So if we start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Lisa White: Sure.

Richard Cox: Nice and broad.

Lisa White: Let's see. I was, I think, something that people find interesting is that I was going to be a medical doctor.

Richard Cox: That is interesting.

Lisa White: I went to UC San Diego Medical School, and about my third year thought this is not what I want to do at all. Get me out of here. Kind of at the same time Chris White, my then husband, was finishing up his Doctorate and we 1:00were home brewing with people who, well then, and used to own Ballast Point Brewing Company in San Diego.

Richard Cox: Right.

Lisa White: And owned Home Brew Mart. It just all fell into place at one time and he started it, White Labs, and I would say it's all thanks to me, though.

Richard Cox: Obviously.

Lisa White: Because he'll love me telling this story over and over, but he came home and it was like, "I got this great job offer. Bio tech." I think it was back in 1995, so $75 grand to start, benefits and all that. He goes, "Or I could maybe do this White Labs." I don't know if we even called it White Labs then. This yeast thing with the breweries that were kind up and coming in San Diego.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lisa White: I said, "Well, we can always do the yeast thing and if it doesn't work out, that Bio Tech job will always be there." That's why I say I credit 2:00myself for having White Labs start. So, that's the interesting thing. I left the medical field. Still in science, but with yeast, and I worked in the lab for the most part way back in the day. Packed a lot of brewery orders, answered phone, took cell counts on the microscope, shipped out on FedEx. Pretty much did everything because we were such a small family business.

Richard Cox: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, you already mentioned that you did home brewing. Is that how you first became interested in the brewing industry, and is that how the yeast interest came through?

Lisa White: Yeah, definitely. I think that was a nice melting of our science background, being geeky nerds, and then also just hanging out with the people who were starting breweries in San Diego. So, everybody just had this passion that was like, "I'm going to start a brewery. I want to start a brewery." Then 3:00we started home brewing with those people.

Richard Cox: Yeah. Then instead you decided to do lab work instead of a brewery, which is sort of interesting.

Lisa White: Mm-hmm (affirmative), well that's where we grew up. In the lab. Then we just ventured off and did more home brewing.

Richard Cox: Also, do you see the work you did in medical school, like you're saying the lab, prepared you in any way for getting into this?

Lisa White: A little bit.

Richard Cox: At least the familiarity.

Lisa White: The funniest compliment I got from Yuseff Cherney, which he was the head brewer there for Ballast Point for a while, and I brewed with him. I'm taking my samples and I bring my sterile pipettes from the lab and take out the sample, and he looked at me. I had my sterile autoclaved foil, and he looked at me and he said, "Wow, I never knew anybody was more anal at brewing than I am." I was like, "Yeah."

Richard Cox: Success.

Lisa White: In the lab, so that's what I'm used to.

Richard Cox: That's all of them. So, it was in 1995 that you all started up 4:00White Labs. What was the lead up to that? I mean, you already talked about interest in home brewing, and how that in some ways led to this. So, you decided you want to do this. What was the lead up then to White Labs?

Lisa White: Well, the main thing was because before those guys even started the brewery, they had Home Brew Mart. So, home brewing stuff, and the guys were always complaining like, "Damn, everybody wants to come in and brew that day," and we had dry yeast, and sometimes it was good, sometimes not good, or it might be contaminated. It wasn't processed very well back then, and we have other things that sometimes they either worked or they took five days to get started, and people want to brew that day. They told Chris, "Is there a way you could maybe grow something up and it would be ready that day, that had enough yeast in 5:00it?" That's what we did. We just started with WLP001 California Ale. We made about 50 vials of that on a Friday, and by Sunday they'd be sold out. So, that's how it just started, very, very small. Then like I said, then breweries started saying, "Well, can you do a bigger batch for me?" That's just how it lead.

Lisa White: Then we got a $5,000 loan from Chris's parents, and that's what we started with.

Richard Cox: Awesome. Was there a point along that, when you made those first vials of WPL001, were you like, "I think this could actually work because they sold out in three days," and you went, "Okay, I think this is it," is that?

Lisa White: Yeah. Ended up being from that we were just students at the time, any money was okay. It was more than we had.

Richard Cox: And you were students, so then you see this going on as amazing.

Lisa White: Yeah.

Richard Cox: So, will you touch on what was the, I don't know if this is the right way to phrase it, but the state of the market when you all were entering it? As far as we're talking about yeast. I think you all, I could be wrong, it 6:00was the first liquid pitchable yeast was from you all. So, what was the yeast market? I don't know if that's the right word, but at that time-

Lisa White: Yeah, I think it was really young, just like San Diego was really young in breweries. I remember seeing stone go in the first building of the first 10 Barrel Brewing House, and AleSmith. Everything was very much in its infancy. People had been home brewers, and they decided to go into brewing. So, even going to home brew festivals. Vinny, who's by Brush and River, he was a home brewer at the time. I would always tell him, "You're one of my favorite brewers of all time," and he would get bashful and everything. Everything, very infancy, so we just grew with them and whatever they needed, what our customers needed, what they wanted, we found or brew it up to what they needed.

Richard Cox: Yeah, because it feels like what you all were doing is really 7:00unique, is just sort of what I'm getting at with it in one way. There's breweries and other home brewers, but as far as you're part of that more broad market, it seems like somebody might have been even more in an infancy than brewing. I could be totally wrong, but please tell me if I am. It seems interesting. So, how would you describe White Labs to people unaware of what all you do?

Lisa White: I would say we make the world a better place, and we're a bunch of nerds but we are passionate about what we do. I say make the world a better place because without yeast, there's no alcohol, and I tell everyone you'll just be drinking juice if it wasn't for yeast. Even people on the tours, they'll say, "What about champagne?" I said, "Yep, that has yeast." "What about vodka?" "Yep, had yeast." People who are not familiar just go, "Oh, okay. So sugar, and the yeast comes in, and you make the alcohol." So, we're passionate, we're nerds, 8:00but we just love the science and what we want to do is also improve the science in the fermentation aspect. So, we do a lot of collaborations and experiments, and go to the American Society of Brewing Chemist meetings every year.

Richard Cox: Specific.

Lisa White: Yeah. Part of our company philosophy is culture and community also, and I think that's something that we're growing into more and more. We also have a philanthropic side that we really try to push. I'm also president for Beer for Boobs, which we raise money to fight breast cancer, develop research, and we do a lot of awesome great things around Habitat for Humanity, and we go out and build and everything there. So, we're just trying to build that culture as well.

Richard Cox: Yeah, absolutely. If you were to describe the mission or have a 9:00mission statement for White Labs, which ties into that question, what would that be?

Lisa White: Really we're just trying to advance fermentation and cultivate community. That's our main tag lines, but we're trying to really bring the best products, fermentation wise, education, culture to our customers and anybody in the fermentation industry whether it's distilled spirits, wine, beer, fermented foods. Whatever that may be, kombucha, we're trying to have the best products for them.

Richard Cox: Yeah, and it seems from some of the things you've already said that education is a major part. Like you're saying, a lot of people, they don't know what all yeast is in. So, it seems like that's probably also a major part of what you do as far as educating.

Lisa White: Yeah, and now that we have Kitchen and Tap, it's even nicer as well because we try to do some fermented options, use brewer's yeast in our baking 10:00products, and then we do fermentation pairing series both here and in San Diego, which you can have the beer compliment something that may or may not have beer in it or was fermented by yeast. People get that education, which is nice. Edible education.

Richard Cox: Which is always good.

Lisa White: Yeah, yeah.

Richard Cox: Yeah. So, I think this was 2017, Asheville was selected as the East Coast location for White Labs. Can you talk a little bit about what lead you to make that decision as far as why Asheville, and the lead up to that?

Lisa White: Yeah, I think we always knew even five years before that that we were going to move to the East Coast. We wanted to be closer to this side for our customers, and then as times got closer, we started looking at different cities. Then we narrowed it down to something like North Carolina, South Carolina, and visited those cities. Once it became pretty clear that it was going to be myself that was going to move out here and open it, I started 11:00getting more selective. We wanted to avoid like three feet of snow. I'm not used to that, I'm from Texas originally, and then Southern California. So, that wasn't going to work, but we really were looking for a really great brewery community. We were looking for a destination, also, that people would come to but then also have that beer destination as well. So, both. San Diego is a very outdoorsy place. Wanted that also. People go out there and kayak, and bike, and run.

Lisa White: So, we're looking for that same location feel here, and when I came here, as soon as they told me people would tube down the river, people moved here for mountain biking, all that great stuff I was like, "This sounds like a really great place." I really have to say that the economic develop team here was amazing. You want to feel like you're wanted somewhere, and they really did do that for us. Other things that they had that really appealed to me was the 12:00educational support with A-B Tech in the area, and they have a fermentation program there. So, I felt like we were going to get some good candidates that could possibly work here, as well as they help us do a lot of the interviewing here as well.

Richard Cox: Oh, that's amazing. So, that's really integrated on what you're doing.

Lisa White: Yeah.

Richard Cox: That's great. Did you find that they say any particular challenges when you're opening here? Usually people talk about licensing and permits.

Lisa White: I mean, yeah. Another reason we chose North Carolina in general was because a lot of the laws were already in place here. So, in other locations like Tennessee and South Carolina, they were still working through some of that. So, whether it turned in your favor or not, we didn't know. So, another plus in the North Carolina column was that was already taken care of. We knew we could open a restaurant and serve our beer and have a brewery here also.

Richard Cox: Oh, that's the legislation you're talking about. I was curious if 13:00it was something specific to the lab work or that sort of thing. Okay. So, you already mentioned opening the Kitchen and Tap. Is that sort of thing unique to the actual location?

Lisa White: Yes.

Richard Cox: So, what led you down the path to decide you wanted to do the Kitchen and Tap with your own food and your beer and that sort of thing?

Lisa White: Well, in San Diego we have a taproom, but we don't have food. That's restrictive in a couple of ways, because people will come and they try the beers, which is great, with the different yeasts and that's definitely a unique thing that we have, but because of that in San Diego, we can't even have guest beers on tap. So, that's a bummer, and one of the great things we have here is that we have also our clients on tap too, and all we ask is, "Hey, can we make sure that we can say what yeast that you have in the beer in case people are interested?" They said, "Yeah, no problem." We really wanted to showcase what 14:00else yeast can do besides just be in beer or be in wine and so forth. We thought there was something that could really promote yeast in food, and we thought Asheville was a really great place to do that too. It's a very fruity town, and people are open to something different than just your normal pizza or regular sandwiches. We could do something that would showcase yeast in food also.

Richard Cox: So, what are some examples?

Lisa White: We have lactobacillus brined french fries, which are amazing. So, they are the malt on the french fry. You know how people put malt vinegar on their fries? It kind of has that already incorporated in the french fries, and like I said, we do the brewer's yeast in the dough. I think that really helps just keep fermenting that dough to have less residual sugars in there, which is 15:00nice. I notice myself if I eat regular pizza, it's a little bit bloaty, but this one I don't feel. I can eat half that pizza and feel fine. We use beer in some of the recipes like the glazes and the Frankenstout sauce on the desserts and things like that.

Richard Cox: So, another thing you mentioned I personally think is really interesting is the flights, which you'd think it's the same beer, but because of the different yeasts in it.

Lisa White: The only thing that changes is the yeast in the recipe. Split the batch.

Richard Cox: Talk a little about that.

Lisa White: Yeah, I think that's really amazing. Basically, we take one big fermenter. We'll do a 10 barrel batch and then split it into four, and the only thing we change is the yeast in there. I think it's really neat to see whether 16:00you're doing a hefeweizen, which is supposed to be a cloudy beer, and then you'll put something different in there. Or, we did a IPA. This was before the Haze craze even. We put 008 in there and I was like, "Wow, that tastes really neat." I never would have put that particular yeast in this beer, but it's a little more cloudy for an IPA. It's got some great esters, and just really pronounced. It's funny that now when one of the strains they look for a New England IPA is 008, or one of our other strains.

Lisa White: This was, wow, I want to say maybe five years ago.

Richard Cox: That's forever in the beer world.

Lisa White: Yeah. It was like, "Wow, that's really interesting." I think that is what people can get out of that. Some crazy strain we pull and we throw into a pale ale or a hefeweizen like, "Oh, I never thought that could work like that." We have the Sac Trois yeast, which is like a brett-ish beer, and then we put in 17:00the IPA. It was phenomenal.

Richard Cox: Oh wow, yeah.

Lisa White: That thing sold like hot cakes.

Richard Cox: I saw it, yeah.

Lisa White: Yeah, yeah. So, one of the guys who used to own AleSmith at the time, he said, "Man, I wish this place had been around when I was a home brewer. I would have really just nerded out in here with my notebook," and I do see people come with notebooks and take notes on what that particular yeast does in the style.

Richard Cox: It goes back to what you were saying before about education again. I mean, what better way to show what yeast can do than this, in theory, is the same beer? Look at what the yeast is doing. How fundamental it is to what's happening.

Lisa White: Right, right. Exactly.

Richard Cox: Yeah, that education component again. Would you say there's any difference between beer yeast and bread yeast? Because you're putting beer yeast in your dough.

Lisa White: Yes. I mean, there is, just like beer yeast has been domesticated to do what it does very well in beer. The same is true with bread yeast. They work 18:00a lot quicker in that particular environment. We do a three day ferment just to get it up to a speed. A lot of people can't do that in the pizza industry. They're not going to wait three days to get some dough ready. They're just popping them out as fast as they can. So, yeah. There's definitely differences, but we can work with that.

Richard Cox: Yeah, absolutely. What is the process of working with yeast for beer insofar?

Lisa White: What do you mean?

Richard Cox: I'm trying to think of what I mean there, honestly. Go ahead if you were going to say something. Totally blanking. I totally know why I'm asking that question.

Lisa White: Well, I can answer it like the lab form. It's funny. Sometimes when people visit they'll say, "Oh, I didn't realize this was so technical." You think you just grow yeast in a vat and it's fine, and people are in lab coats, 19:00people are all wearing hairnets, people are wearing lab coats and there's Petri dishes and autoclaves. It's very much like you would see somebody in a pharmaceutical place, but instead we're just growing yeast, and we're giving yeast what they love which is a malt based nutrient that's been sterilized. It's very, I guess the term would be, brew tech versus being pharm tech.

Richard Cox: Yeah. You were already talking about some of your fundraising and community engagement work, like Beer for Boobs. Would you like to talk a little bit more about that? Because I know that's a project of yours, and some of the other stuff White Labs does within the community?

Lisa White: Yeah. I just felt like people just like to have, and I mean my employees, just you want to come to work every day and you want to do a great job, but there's parts that you want to do a little bit more and you want to 20:00give back to the community. We really want to nourish that here as well. Besides making great yeast that makes the world a better place and goes to all these breweries and makes great beer, but we also want to give back to the community. We just think that is really important, and I think Asheville, again, was one of those places that really does, is very community rich, people will have festivals and raise money for this charity and that charity. People get out and do river cleanups and all of that, and we really want to be a part of that too.

Lisa White: So, I think we are set to do more and more community, and even the people in Kitchen and Tap, they want to do that also. We're trying to reach back and do more of that in San Diego, since I'm the one that heads that up a little bit more, so I'm trying to get our feet wet here in doing that. Beer for Boobs has been very prevalent in San Diego as well, because that's where it started, but we also brought it out here. We just thought it was a great opportunity for 21:00people. Sometimes they go to a beer festival and they're great, they're enjoying themselves, but they feel a little bit better saying, "Hey, I'm going to buy that shirt. I'm going to buy that hat that says Beer for Boobs on it, and I know that money is going somewhere awesome."

Lisa White: Even this year, I should say last year, we supported a child going to camp around here at Camp Cedar Cliff. They have a week of camp called a Week of Joy, and it's for a child that is in some way affected by cancer whether they have had it, or a parent, or a grandparent. Something like that, and so they can go there and just enjoy being a kid and get some counseling and things like that.

Richard Cox: Cool. That's amazing. That's really amazing. So, how do you see White Labs, Asheville specifically if you'd like, growing in the future?

Lisa White: I think we're going to just do more. If you asked me five years ago, 22:00"Would you do this?" I don't even know what's coming. We don't even know what's coming. The industry changes all the time, but it's fun to be a part of. We listen. We want to listen to our customers and see what they need and what would help them, and maybe we can be a part of that. I think that we might be doing some more research also, because that's fun nerd stuff to do. There might be a different yeast that does this versus-

Richard Cox: Or a new beer style for example.

Lisa White: Yeah, right? Those pop up all the time.

Richard Cox: Right.

Lisa White: Brewed IPAs for example. I was like, "What is that? Oh, you can use an enzyme." I said, "Oh, low carb beer. Okay, I get it."

Richard Cox: There you are. That's awesome.

Lisa White: Yeah. So, I just feel like there's more. There's more we can do for our employees and more we can do charitable wise, but one of the coolest things 23:00we do internally is have an innovation summit. It's where our employees bring an idea, and we did it in a Shark Tank format last year. So, they came in, we were a four person group, and they pitched their idea.

Richard Cox: Well done.

Lisa White: They had this idea like, "Hey, I think it will be great if we selected a strain from here, and this is how I think I could capture it for instance, and this is how I'd grow it up, and this is how I'd test it," and then one of us four sharks would say, "I'm going to back you up, and we'll meet and we'll get this project done," and then in November they came out and everybody had finished their project and moved forward.

Richard Cox: That's amazing.

Lisa White: It was amazing, and one that I guess Joe, you met earlier, did with MC was a wellness club here for the staff. We wanted to get different funding 24:00but they thought having a wellness club at work would help people mentally and physically here. So, we do yoga here at least once a month, and go out for hikes and invite the whole staff. So, that was one of the innovation projects that we had.

Richard Cox: That's amazing, too. That's great. So, you've been either adjacent to or in the brewing industry for a long time. How would you say the brewing scene has changed since you first got into it?

Lisa White: Besides the multitude of people.

Richard Cox: Besides everything.

Lisa White: I think back in the day people were just trying to make the classic beers. Like, "I'm going to make a great pale ale. I'm going to make a stout. I'm going to make a porter," and now it's like, "What can I put in a beer that's crazier? You did that, but I'm going to do this," and you're just like, "What are you guys thinking?" I think also people have almost a culinary background 25:00getting into the brewing industry. "What could I put together that tastes great, that compliments food, that uses this spice, or throwing in lavender or whatever it would be. What's in my area? What's in my environment?" And putting it into a beer, which I think is pretty cool.

Richard Cox: Yeah, and then what you're doing here ties nicely into that with the kitchen.

Lisa White: Yeah.

Richard Cox: So, yeah. Are there any particular trends today that you really do or do not like in the industry?

Lisa White: No, I guess I'm just more curious about them, but I try to embrace them and love them because at first I was like, "Oh, kombucha. That's weird," and then I tried to taste it and I was like, "Ew." Then they made an awesome kombucha cocktail downstairs. I was like, "All right, good for me. Probiotic." I like it. Yeah, I mean there's some things I have to taste a few times, but for the most part I really do like the new trends.

Richard Cox: Great. What role do you see White Labs playing in Asheville and the 26:00North Carolina brewing community, other than supplying yeast?

Lisa White: Yeah, obviously supplying yeast, but I think just again, growing together. Just kind of what we did in San Diego, and helping people out, because we have a local malt company here, Riverbend Malt, and we're going to do some collaborations with them with specific malts they grew in this region, and then maybe we could do some yeast that we collected in this region.

Richard Cox: Oh, that sounds interesting.

Lisa White: Yeah, see what we can have, a North Carolina specific.

Richard Cox: Very specific to the area, that's great. That'll come back up in a minute, I think. So, if you had your crystal ball, where would you see this industry going in the next three to five years?

Lisa White: Whoa.

Richard Cox: Yeah. There's a variety of takes on it, and it's all throwing it up 27:00in the air and guessing.

Lisa White: I just hope people stay collaborative. I really think that that is unique to this industry. Coming from more the university side, gosh, even biotech side. You have your results and you're doing your experiment, and you keep it over here to yourself. I don't see that in brewing, and I hope that that stays that way. I hope that breweries do well, and they can be true to what they want to be. I was going to say something else, but maybe not.

Richard Cox: No, no, that's good. That's good. I lost my train of thought anyway.

Lisa White: I think White Labs will be right there with them.

Richard Cox: Absolutely, yeah. Do you have a favorite beer from a North Carolina brewery?

Lisa White: Oh man.

Richard Cox: I know. You could talk about style.

28:00

Lisa White: Gosh, they change so much.

Richard Cox: This week.

Lisa White: This week. Oh my gosh, there's so many. This week. I think Bhramari has a good one. It's like a cinnamon toast. I don't remember the name of it, but it tastes like cinnamon toast crunch beer.

Richard Cox: That sounds great. Dessert.

Lisa White: Dessert. Yeah, dessert in a cup.

Richard Cox: I'm guessing I know the answer to this, but what would you say is White Lab's signature yeast strain, the one you're most known for?

Lisa White: We're most known for our California Ale 001, the number one strain we ever did. I've got to say that Coastal Haze strain is right behind it, and they're still brewing it. It's almost like East Coast, West Coast thing. Gangster rap and now yeast. The IPA style is the West Side, East Side.

29:00

Richard Cox: We're close to Atlanta.

Lisa White: Yeah people were like, "Oh, we don't like that hazy strain," but now I see them popping up over there on the West Coast.

Richard Cox: That's interesting.

Lisa White: You've got to embrace the trends.

Richard Cox: Yeah, since you came from the West Coast, do you tend to see trends moving West to East usually in the industry?

Lisa White: Yeah, I think so. For the most part.

Richard Cox: It seems like a lot.

Lisa White: I've had to say this one is definitely going that way.

Richard Cox: Yeah, I don't think anyone saw new IPAs happening, until suddenly it's everywhere.

Lisa White: Yeah, then some people who were just dead set against it, they're now brewing it.

Richard Cox: Because.

Lisa White: Got to give the customers what they want, so they want that. They like it.

Richard Cox: Yeah. So, a little different from what your flagship yeast strain is, do you have one, because yeast, they're active little buggers, is there a yeast strain you would say is your favorite or one you found most interesting?

Lisa White: There's a couple, but I guess my favorite, it's one of the originals, is 002 English Ale, and I think because it takes a little more care 30:00when you brew with it. As a home brewer, that stuff is super flocculent, so you just have to rouse up the yeast all the time and baby it, but it just gives you great beers. I'm not a crazy real ale kind of person, but definitely it would make the beers that I was looking for, the classic English ales and bitters.

Richard Cox: Do you still have time to home brew?

Lisa White: No, I don't anymore. We do brew downstairs, so I get in on those every once and a while just because it's fun.

Richard Cox: What do you like to brew?

Lisa White: Right now I'm looking for different pink beers to brew since we do a Beer for Boobs beer, usually, and part of the proceeds go to Beer for Boobs. So, fun. We're in the process of making one. It might be next week actually, but it's going to be a strawberries and cream. So, we're going to use a little bit 31:00of lactose in there.

Richard Cox: That should be interesting.

Lisa White: So, that would be fun.

Richard Cox: That would be great. That's all I have.

Lisa White: Awesome.

Richard Cox: Is there anything I missed you want to add?

Lisa White: Come visit us in Asheville, because it's great here.

Richard Cox: Eat the great food and enjoy the beer.

Lisa White: Yeah, yeah.

Richard Cox: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Lisa White: You're welcome.

Richard Cox: I appreciate it.