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0:00 - Introduction

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Partial Transcript: SM: Today is August 28, 2011. My name is Sarah McNulty. I am the oral history interviewer for the African American Institutional Memory Project. I am here today with--

MS: Marie Darr Scott. I was Marie Darr at UNCG in 1970.

Segment Synopsis: Interviewer and interviewee are introduced.

0:23 - Background

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Partial Transcript: SM: So, Mrs. Scott, thank you for coming today. We like to start off with just asking you to tell us about where you were born, your birth date, and about your family.

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly describes growing up in Thomasville North Carolina.

1:16 - Reasons for applying to UNCG

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Partial Transcript: I believe that I and another student who graduated with me were the first students to attend a predominantly white university. That must be true. You know, it can be verified.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes her reasons for applying to UNCG, including the Governor's School, geographic proximity, and financial aid.

3:33 - Family background

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Partial Transcript: SM: What was your family like? Did you have any siblings?

MS: I did. My family/situation background is a complicated one. I was basically adopted, not formally, but I was adopted into a family and all the other children were much older than me.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes her family background. Includes discussion of her adoption and her siblings, in addition to lack of family finances.

6:14 - Studies and ambitions before attending UNCG

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Partial Transcript: SM: Before you came to UNCG, what did you think you wanted to study? What were your strong suits in high school?

MS:Yes, before I came to UNCG? Oh, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a nurse when still in high school.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes what she wanted to pursue as a career while she was still in high school

8:27 - School background

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Partial Transcript: SM: So your high school- You graduated in 1966. I mean, schools were supposed to have integrated by that point, but the South was slow.

MS: I didn't go to an integrated school.

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly discusses the lack of integration in her high school. She discusses Thomasville Sr. High and the closure of Church Street High School.

9:29 - Majoring in History

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Partial Transcript: SM: Well, we can move on to what you did at UNCG so if you want to look through some of those things, you can--

MS: Yes

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly describes majoring in American History at UNCG.

10:38 - First day on campus (part 1)

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Partial Transcript: SM: Well, what was your first day like on campus? The first- had you ever visited before?

MS: Let me think, I don't quite remember visiting. I don't think I did visit.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes coming to campus for the first time when moving in, and meeting up with her roommates.

11:49 - Roommates

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Partial Transcript: SM: Who was your roommate?

MS: Marion White. I had two roommates: Marion White and Edith [Knox].

Segment Synopsis: Scott discusses her two roommates, Marion White and Edith Knox.

12:49 - First day on campus (part 2)

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Partial Transcript: MS: Marion did come to visit so I knew one of my roommates when I came and she knew a few other people who were coming.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes meeting people on her first day on campus.

13:35 - Living in the residence halls

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Partial Transcript: SM: And you were three in a room. Did you have a larger room or were you just in a regular sized room?

MS: Well, there was a bunk bed. I think it was regular sized room, pretty much.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes living in the residence halls, including room layout, Junior Assistants (JAs) and Rat Sisters.

15:38 - Rat sisters/Rat Day

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Partial Transcript: SM: And so you had a rat sister. Did you guys still celebrate Rat Day?

MS: I think so, I believe we did.

SM: Because some of these traditions died out when UNCG became co-
educational, a lot of these things kind of stopped.

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly discusses Rat sisters and Rat Day at UNCG.

16:18 - Black sophomores

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Partial Transcript: MS: So there was that, there was the JA, and there were
the black sophomores, who came around. Because Edith was from Winston-
Salem and two or three other girls in the sophomore class, the black girls in
the sophomore class were from Winston-Salem. And they came, you know,
they came to see us. And you know said, "We're Claudette, and Merle".

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes meeting and befriending several black sophomore girls, including Claudette Alexander, Yvonne Johnson, and Myrtle Gore.

18:29 - Academic difficulties

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Partial Transcript: SM: You talked about college biology and chemistry, specifically were a
challenge. What do you think was college like for you academically, just as a
whole, coming from, which you said your school was really low and-?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes her early academic life at UNCG, including difficulties in learning study skills, as well as difficulty in the sciences. She also talks about having a certain aptitude for the humanities, such as English.

23:39 - The foundation of the Neo-Black Society

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Partial Transcript: MS: I was a person who was kind of like an idealist and a dreamer and like that, but I wasn't in the arts and so as far as my education [goes], it was a matter of leaning some things.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes her involvement with the Neo-Black Society, including being a founding member. She also talks about a Black Power Forum at the school in 1967.

27:27 - Cafeteria workers strike

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Partial Transcript: MS: So, we had the Black Power Forum and then some other things happened: the cafeteria workers went on strike that year, and quite a few of the cafeteria workers were students from A&T.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes the cafeteria workers strike, and its associations with the Neo-Black Society and students from A&T.

29:13 - Other black organizations in Greensboro

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Partial Transcript: MS: And so anyway, there -- And I'm among the group of black students at that time who really saw the black movement as more my ambition, you know, than academics, okay.

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly describes other black organizing in Greensboro, including A&T and Bennett College, as well as some non-student organizations.

30:45 - Movement for a black history class.

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Partial Transcript: MS: On campus we struggled for a black history class and it was our efforts, I won't say the Neo-Black Society per se, that was like going after this black history class.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes the movement to get a black history class. She also describes their attempt to get a black professor to teach black history. Dr. Bardolph of the history department was mentioned.

34:00 - Neo-Black Society Lounge

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Partial Transcript: That's really interesting. Did the Neo-Black Society do any other kinds of like, I mean they were political, and they were involved in change but were there other things that they did, even socially or--

Segment Synopsis: Scott discusses the Neo-Black Society Lounge in Elliott Hall.

34:59 - Naming the Neo-Black Society

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Partial Transcript: MS: In '68, '68 we formed the Neo-Black Society and met in one of the big lounges at Elliott Hall. That's where we had our meetings.

Segment Synopsis: Scott discusses how the Neo-Black Society got its name, including mentions of "black bourgeoisie".

38:48 - Structure of the Neo-Black Society

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Partial Transcript: SM: You were--you were obviously very involved with the Neo-Black Society. Were you ever, like, an officer or did you guys have that kind of structure or---?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes some of the internal structure of the Neo-Black Society. She also discusses being offered the presidency of the organization.

40:53 - Club involvement/Yearbook

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Partial Transcript: SM: Were you ever involved in any other kind of clubs on campus?

MS: Well, let me think. Let me think back.

Segment Synopsis: Scott and McNulty discuss the yearbook format as Scott looks for the listing of the clubs she was a member of. Brief discussion of the Junior Ring committee, and the Neo-Black Society Community Liaison Committee.

42:37 - Time with "GUTS" (Greensboro United Tutorial Service)

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Partial Transcript: MS: "GUTS", that stands for Greensboro United Tutorial Service.

SM: Okay.

MS: Yes. Greensboro United Tutorial Service. I was in that my sophomore, junior, and senior years and I was assistant coordinator.

Segment Synopsis: Scott gives a description of her involvement with "GUTS" (Greensboro United Tutorial Service) as the assistant coordinator.

44:36 - Living in the International House

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Partial Transcript: MS: And I was a section leader my junior year. I lived in the International House.

SM: What does "section leader" mean exactly?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes living on the German floor of the International House during her junior year.

46:08 - Living in the dorms

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Partial Transcript: SM: What did you do senior year?

MS: Senior year I lived in one of the high rise dorms.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes her different dorm living arrangements during her time at UNCG.

48:40 - Interaction between black and white students at UNCG

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Partial Transcript: SM: Yes. I was going to ask if you could tell me about how whites and blacks interacted.

MS: Yes, I'll talk about that. Yes. I'll talk about that.

Segment Synopsis: Discussion between interviewer and interviewee about interaction between black and white students on campus during the 1960s.

50:13 - Living in the dorms (part 2)

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Partial Transcript: SM: Were the high-rise dorms suite style, or were they still halls? Were you in like a long hall with a bathroom, or were you like four rooms sharing a suite style bathroom?

Segment Synopsis: Brief discussion of suite style dorms.

50:56 - Being part of the black student community

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Partial Transcript: SM: Well, can you tell me about experiences, like, in the dining halls? Were there ever any issues? I know you said the cafeteria workers' strike-- had a strike.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes the community that had developed between the black students. She discusses how the black students often sat together, and how the older black students acted as mentors to the younger students.

53:45 - Dionne Warwick concert

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Partial Transcript: SM: Do you remember any kind of, like, social or academic events? You talked about the blacks forum, the Black Student Forum, was there anything else like that, or concerts or kind of extra things that the university hosted, that you can remember?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes singer Dionne Warwick coming to UNCG, and being able to meet with her.

57:14 - Interactions with the faculty

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Partial Transcript: MS: I mean, I looked upon UNCG as a really good school [when it came to change] that we asked for. We, of course, wanted it to be more of a thing of us fighting for it [because] we had that militancy, some of us. But UNCG seemed to be good about change.

Segment Synopsis: Scott discusses some of her interactions with UNCG faculty, including Philosophy professor Dr. Warren Ashby

59:45 - The Residential College at UNCG

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Partial Transcript: MS: And what had happened was I got a job at UNCG in the admissions office right out of school. Yes. They needed someone to work in recruitment, black student recruitment. And so they hired me to be that person. Yes.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes briefly working on college student recruitment before moving on to teach at the Residential College.

62:25 - Interactions between UNCG, Bennett College, and A&T

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Partial Transcript: SM: What would you say was your -- I mean, you had a relationship with students at Bennett and A&T through the Neo-Black Society. Did a lot of people from your high school go to those two colleges? I mean, did you know anybody else?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes some interactions between students from UNCG, Bennett College, and A&T. She describes some of the interaction in relation to her role as a community liaison for the Neo-Black Society.

64:47 - Dating between UNCG and A&T students

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Partial Transcript: SM: There weren't many men at UNCG in general, I'm sure, during your time. It was still you know---

MS: Exactly.

SM: predominantly women.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes different aspects of dating men from A&T, including getting a date for a ball.

67:56 - Black students having difficulty adjusting academically

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Partial Transcript: MS: Yes, we wanted to branch out. And she didn't finish, she didn't finish UNCG. I'm trying to think if she came back the second year, you know.

SM: Did you find that a lot of your classmates didn't make it or didn't stay with it?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes the difficulty many black students had adjusting academically to UNCG. She also mentions considering transferring to another school.

75:33 - Favorite aspects of college life

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Partial Transcript: SM: Well, one of my other questions is what was - I mean, we kind of touched on this - but if you could say one aspect or one part of college was your favorite, what would you say that was?

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly mentions enjoying singing and finding her purpose with the Neo-Black Society.

76:28 - Assassination of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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Partial Transcript: SM: Did the black - Neo-Black Society and the black movement - did that come kind of as on the death of Martin Luther King Jr.? Was that kind of on the tails of that?

Segment Synopsis: Scott discusses the fallout after the assassination of Rev Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

80:16 - Anti-Vietnam War activities

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Partial Transcript: SM: Do you remember anything about - kind of to frame your time at college with the time period in a larger sense. Do you have nay memories or feelings about what you felt with the escalation of the Vietnam War?

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly describes the lack of much organized opposition to the Vietnam War on campus.

83:16 - House parties and fun

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Partial Transcript: SM: You kind of - you touched on the Soda Shop made me think of: What other kinds of places did you guys go to hang out or to have fun?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes the house parties that would happen off campus. She also mentions living with her boyfriend much of her senior year.

85:50 - Yum-Yums/The Corner/Ratskeller

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Partial Transcript: SM: And did people hang out at Yum-Yums or The Corner and places like that?

MS: Not so much hanging out. {86:00} You would go there for a hot dog. Or just go
there to get something. I mean we went there to get stuff a lot, but no, we didn't hang out.

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly discusses Yum-Yum's, The Corner, local restaraunts, and Ratskeller, a local bar/club.

86:27 - Shopping

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Partial Transcript: SM: And did people venture downtown ever for social stuff or shopping?

MS: Well shopping, for sure. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Shopping for sure.

Segment Synopsis: Scott briefly describes shopping in downtown Greensboro and on Tate Street.

87:06 - Being without a car

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Partial Transcript: SM: Did you have a car ever on campus?

MS: I never did.

SM: So you always had to-

Segment Synopsis: Brief discussion of not having a car on campus

87:27 - Becoming a revolutionary and labor organizer at Cone Mills

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Partial Transcript: SM: Interesting. Well we've touched on what you did after graduation for the few years you worked in admissions and you worked in the Residential College. What did you do, kind of from that point on?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes some of the revolutionary activities she participated in after college, as well as becoming a labor organizer at Cone Mills

98:19 - Leaving Cone Mills

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Partial Transcript: SM: What made you leave Cone Mills in '92?

MS: Just life. I just had a lot of family tragedy and what-not. I was married
and I have two children. Their father passed away. There was a lot of tragedy in
the family and I just needed to-I just couldn't take working there anymore
because I wasn't organizing anymore.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes leaving Cone Mills in 1992 to care for her family.

100:23 - Staying in Greensboro

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Partial Transcript: SM Well, have you stayed in Greensboro ever since you went to college?

MS: Yes, I did. I stayed in Greensboro. This is where the movement was and the
man that I married was involved in the movement, too. Yes. And we had our
children here and I liked the schools here. There was no reason to leave.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes why she decided to make her home in Greensboro.

100:55 - Keeping in touch with classmates / Facebook

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Partial Transcript: SM: And do you stay in touch with any of your classmates, your
former classmates?

MS: Well, not really. For a while I saw people who were in Greensboro also. But
no, I don't-I don't stay in touch with them. I may get on Facebook later and
then get in touch with people but I'm not on Facebook right now. Are you?

Segment Synopsis: Discussion between McNulty and Scott about the merits of Facebook.

102:43 - Black Alumni Council

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Partial Transcript: MS: Yes, yes. What I was actually-there was a Black Alumni Council for a while
here and I participated with that for a while, not when it first started, and
probably not until it was kind of dissolved, but
for a few years I participated with the Black Alumni Council.

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes being on the board of directors of the Black Alumni Council at UNCG.

104:14 - Children's education and careers

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Partial Transcript: SM: And neither of your children went to
UNCG then?

MS: No. No.

SM: One, you said, went to Howard?

MS: My daughter. She did her undergraduate at Howard University in Washington.
Yes. You know it?

Segment Synopsis: Scott describes the educational and career tracks of her children.

106:44 - Grimsley High School

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Partial Transcript: SM: And where did they go to high school in Greensboro?

MS: Grimsley [High School].

SM: Grimsley, okay. Because I was trying to think about it. I was, like, "Well,
you worked at White Oak." So I was like, "That's kind of Page [High School]
area" and then-

Segment Synopsis: Brief discussion between McNulty and Scott about Greensboro high schools, mainly Grimsley High School.

107:24 - Message to future students

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Partial Transcript: MS: Yes, yes. So-Well, this had been fun with you, Sarah.

SM: Well, I have one more thing. What do you want-and this is a question we ask
everyone-What do you want future students and scholars to know about your
experience at UNCG? I know it's a hard question.

MS: Yes, it's a weighty question.

Segment Synopsis: Scott gives a message to future students and scholars at UNCG, including some advice.

109:21 - Interview conclusion

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Partial Transcript:
SM: Well, I don't have any more formal questions. Is
there anything else you'd like to add?

MS: Well, no. Not really. I just want to end on that note and I'm glad that I
did finally get together with you to do this.

Segment Synopsis: Conclusion of the interview.

0:00

SM: Today is August 28, 2011. My name is Sarah McNulty. I am the oral history interviewer for the African American Institutional Memory Project, [which is part of The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Institutional Memory Collection]. I am here today with-

MS: Marie Darr Scott. I was Marie Darr at UNCG in 1970.

SM: Class of 1970. So, Mrs. Scott, thank you today for coming. We like to start off with just asking you to tell us about where you were born, your birth date, and about your family.

MS: Yes. Okay. Well, I was born September 11, 1948. I grew up in Thomasville, North Carolina. It was that period of time when schools were segregated and I attended Church Street School, which was a school from grades one through twelve. My class of 1966 was the largest class ever to graduate from Church 1:00Street High School and we were looking forward to change. I believe that I and another student who graduated with me were the first students to attend a predominantly white university. That must be true. You know, it can be verified. But just thinking back just now about that, I believe that's true that we were the first to attend a predominantly white university. I only applied to UNCG [The University of North Carolina at Greensboro], I didn't apply to any other school. I think maybe what led me to do that was that I had attended the 2:00Governor's School as a junior in high school. That kind of broadened my view, my outlook, my thinking some, about where I might possibly go, you know, from Church Street School. And so UNCG was really close by, which was important to my family. I was over-protected [laughter] and they didn't want me to go far away to college. Now that I think about it, I believe I wanted to go to Howard University in Washington, D.C. I believe that that was something I was 3:00interested in but it was out of the question because it was too far. And so UNCG being just like a really good school and just thirty minutes away-and I got financial aid-so all that went into my ending up as a freshman at UNCG in 1966.

SM: What was your family like? Did you have any siblings?

MS: I did. My family/situation background is a complicated one. I was basically adopted, not formally, but I was adopted into a family and all of the other children were much older than me. The youngest child in the family was thirteen 4:00years older than me. I was more like the daughter of a couple of my sisters but anyway, anyway, it's kind of like a lot of attention was focused on me to move out of that situation, out of that environment. We were very poor; my father worked as a factory laborer and my mother worked as a domestic. And we were really, really, really poor. But I was seen as a bright child and the teachers 5:00and all encouraged me and pushed me, and so I was able to go to college and have a different level of education than my family.

SM: So the family you were adopted into, did they-Had any of them gone to college?

MS: No. Actually, well, well-not so fast, not so fast. There were three boys and three girls and the oldest girl went to nursing school, yes, in Winston-Salem-Katherine Bitting Nursing School. And the oldest of the sons, there were, as I said, three boys and three girls, and the oldest boy had, so 6:00I'm told, done maybe a year of college somewhere in [Washington,] D.C. They said it was Howard but I really don't think so. [laughs]

SM: Before you came to UNCG, what did you think you wanted to study? What were your strong suits in high school?

MS: Yes, before I came to UNCG? Oh, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a nurse when still in high school. I said, "I'm going to be a nurse." And then as I got ready to go to college, my ambitions, you know, expanded and I thought I would go into medicine, that I'd be a doctor, but biology and chemistry at UNCG 7:00changed all that. [laughter]

SM: So that you were stronger in the sciences before you came, that was-

MS: No, not really. I wasn't. [laughter] I was stronger in English, in French. I was stronger in those. I didn't really-understand that my high school was-it was very small. It was just kind of a lower level of education, truly it was, and I was kind of good at everything in high school. I graduated valedictorian and I was just kind of, like, good in all my classes; made A's in all my classes and 8:00so I don't think I really quite assessed what my strong suit was. I didn't really assess it because I just kind of felt equally good at everything. But now that I think about it, I was better in English and literature and that's what I should have gone into and even in college I should have; but I didn't.

SM: So your high school-You graduated in 1966. I mean, schools were supposed to have been integrated by that point but the South was slow.

MS: I didn't go to an integrated school.

SM: Right. Do you know when your community started to integrate high schools? And was it right after you graduated? MS: It was soon after.

SM: Soon after?

MS: Yes, because a couple of my nephews went to Thomasville Sr. High and there was no longer a Church Street High School. The building you know, 9:00that I went to school in became, I think a middle school. Yeah, until they closed down, until they just shut that school down. But just a few years after I graduated, you know, I graduated in 1966 and certainly by 1971 it was totally integrated.

SM: Well, we can move on to what you did at UNCG so if you want to look through some of those things, you can-

MS: Yes.

SM: Well, you told me that your favorite subjects were probably English and literature but what did you actually major in?

MS: I actually majored in history.

SM: History? Oh, wow.

MS: Yes, I did. I actually majored in history.

SM: Okay. And is that your favorite subject, or was that something that you just were good at, or-

MS: Well, it's something that just resonated with me. Here again, it wasn't 10:00really based on assessment; it wasn't based on future plans. It wasn't based on a career that I had in mind, but I wanted to learn and know the best that man[kind] had been, [had] said, and [had] done. That was my reason for-

SM: What kind of history?

MS: -majoring in history.

SM: American history?

MS: American history. Yes, American history, yes.

SM: I love American history, that's for sure. Well, what was your first day like on campus? The first-Had you ever visited here before?

MS: Let me think, I don't quite remember visiting. I don't think I did visit. As I said, I applied to UNCG only and so it wasn't like I was comparing schools. I 11:00don't believe I visited; I think the first time I set foot on campus was when I came to move in. I was assigned to Bailey [Residence Hall], yes I lived in Bailey on the Quad. And the first day was just mainly about meeting other people. I had met my roommate before we came. She came to visit me.

SM: Who was your roommate?

MS: Marion White. I had two roommates: Marion White and Edith [Knox]. What was Edith's last name. Let me see, can I find her? I'll find her looking 12:00through this book. But Edith and Marion were my roommates at Bailey. I'll get back to Edith.

SM: I don't see an Edith on our list.

MS: Seems like Edith didn't graduate.

SM: Did Marion?

MS: Marion didn't graduate from UNCG, she graduated-She went on to another school and I'm not sure where Edith went.

SM: So, they came to visit you or one of them-

MS: Yes, Marion did. Marion did come to visit so I knew one of my roommates when I came and she knew a few other people who were coming. And I saw one girl from 13:00the Governor's School, yes. So my first day was just kind of low-key, just meeting people and just trying to find out where I needed to go. I think I was just following whatever, wherever they said go here for this meeting, and go there. Just like that.

SM: And you were three in a room. Did you have a larger room or were you just in a regular-sized room?

MS: Well, there was a bunk bed. I think it was regular-sized room, pretty much.

SM: Were there others who were three in a room?

MS: Sure, yes. There were plenty three in a room and that was no problem. You 14:00know, I didn't mind; I had the top bunk. Yes. [laughter]

SM: And you were on a hall, I guess? A hall layout-

MS: Yes, yes. It was a hall layout. With a common bathroom for maybe half on the hall, I don't remember whether it was one or two bathrooms on the hall, big bathrooms with shower stalls, so it was layed out like that. You know, we had a rat sister. I'm trying to remember how that went, whether every freshmen class had the rat sisters. But anyhow, sophomores were assigned 15:00to us. Oh and there was the JA, the Junior Assistant. Now that I think about it, I loved the Junior Assistant because she was leading us around. That's what it was, that's how that went.

SM: And was this someone in your dorm, or was this just someone who came to get freshmen.

MS: No, it was every freshmen had a JA, and the JA had like a group. A group from different dorms.

SM: So you were all mixed together.

MS: Yeah.

SM: And so you had a rat sister. Did you guys still celebrate Rat Day?

MS: I think so, I believe we did.

SM: Because some of these traditions died out when UNCG became co- educational, a lot of these things kind of stopped.

MS: What was that anyway, that Rat Day? I don't remember what that was.

SM: I think it has something to do with freshmen having to do something embarrassing. Or something, some kind of hazing thing.

16:00

MS: I think so too, I think that's what it was. So there was a rat sister. And somehow or other, sophomores were paired, randomly I believe. I think it was random, I'm not sure. So there was that, there was the JA, and there were the black sophomores, who came around. Because Edith was from Winston- Salem and two or three other girls in the sophomore class, the black girls in the sophomore class were from Winston-Salem. And they came, you know, they came to see us. And you know said, "We're Claudette, and Merle".

SM: And when you say Claudette, you're talking about Claudette...

17:00

MS: Claudette Alexander?

SM: I think she just died actually, she's on our list of someone who's deceased.

MS: Yeah, I think I saw that. Yeah Claudette Alexander. Now I think Claudette Alexander was from Greensboro if I'm not mistaken. But Yvonne is who I'm thinking of who came to the dorm, she's from Winston. And she came along with I think Myrtle, because I do think Myrtle was from Winston, Myrtle Gore, yeah I'm pretty sure she was from Winston. And they came to see us.

SM: Yvonne Johnson?

MS: Yvonne Johnson! Yes, yes, yes. Yeah they came to see us, they just said, you know "Hey we're sophomores, make sure ya'll are alright". So you 18:00know it was good. And I think that's the thing about my first day. I saw there were people there who would kind of take me by the hand. And I believe that's just what it was. It took me a little bit here to get to that point, but that's what it was Sarah.

SM: You talked about college biology and chemistry, specifically were a challenge. What do you think was college like for you academically, just as a whole, coming from, which you said your school was really low and-?

MS: Well, I'm going to have to talk through this a little bit, because I haven't summed that up in a long time. But just let me talk through it a little bit and 19:00we'll get to a point. It was like this: I felt I was really smart. [laughter]

SM: I think all college freshmen come in thinking that. And then they take their first big lecture class. [laughter] It's that whole "big fish in the small pond" thing.

MS: Yes, yes.

SM: [both talking, unclear] "small fish in a big pond."

MS: Yes, yes, exactly, [I] turned to a small fish in a big pond. And I think that college, for me, was a great challenge, mainly because I did not have correct study skills. Yes. I think that that was just the main thing, that my actual study skills were underdeveloped. And so I found myself reading and 20:00taking notes but not putting it all together or not putting it down for myself in a way that helped me really grasp and, you know what I mean, truly learn because in my high school I pretty much just-It was more like rote memory.

SM: Just floated through?

MS: Yes, like rote memory. I think I was truly undeveloped in terms of study skills and yet, I was able to do really well in some subjects, like in German. I took German because I was thinking about, you know, going into medicine and 21:00somewhere I had gotten the idea that German was the better language for the sciences. And I took it and I made As in it at UNCG and I made Bs in English and so it seemed like I was better in those subjects. And I struggled; I made a C, but I struggled with biology and I struggled with chemistry. And I didn't have a good foundation in the sciences and so the years that I had to meet these certain requirements-science requirements or whatever, whatever those requirements were-I took the courses and I pretty much struggled with those courses and I kind of-My academic experience was one of, on the one hand, I did 22:00really well in some classes. I wrote some really, really good pieces. And on the other hand I struggled to make passing grades. So it was just kind of that mix and I was a little different, a little unusual in this respect [in] that I wasn't real focused as to what I was going to do once I graduated. I took one education course; I didn't get a teacher's certificate; I majored in history; and I didn't get a teacher's certificate. I didn't really have any idea what I 23:00was going to do. I took the history courses in my junior and senior year and in some of them I did really well and in others, you know, I barely passed. So, I think it was kind of a lack of focus there as far as what I was going to do with an education and I was a person like this-and is this going to be good for the-

SM: Yes. Sure. Keep going.

MS: I was a person who was kind of like an idealist and a dreamer and like that, but I wasn't in the arts and so as far as my education [goes], it was a matter of learning some things. That was what education was, in one sense. But in 24:00another sense, my-I think my true education at UNCG was in the movement for change, the black movement for change. That was my-I truly applied myself and involved myself in learning, and fighting for change for the African American people.

SM: So you were part of the Neo-Black Society?

MS: I was, I'm proud to say, a founding member-

SM: Wow.

MS: -of the Neo-Black Society. [laughs] Yes.

SM: What was-I mean, what kind of went into that, being a founding member? How did the organization start?

MS: Oh, it started-Well, I guess probably the first kernel of it was a Black 25:00Power Forum that was held here at UNCG. And that was put on by the NSA, the National Students-seems like that was their organization name-National Student Association. Does that-Have you heard of that?

SM: No, but, I mean, but that could be it. I mean-

MS: I'm not exactly sure. We can research it and find out because I'm speaking about the organization-the student organization-that put on the Black Power Forum in 1967. It was the '67, '68 year. That was my sophomore year, '67, '68. 26:00I'm trying to remember if that forum was in '67, the fall, or if it was in '68. But anyway it was that school year and this Black Power Forum was just-I mean, it just opened up a whole new thought and mind for the black students at UNCG. And not everybody got involved in the movement; I'll put it that way. Not everyone got involved but almost all of the black students were interested in forming a black student organization on campus. This was the time when the black student unions were being formed at predominantly white universities. It was a 27:00phenomenon. Yes. And so UNCG, here at UNCG, we became a part of that phenomenon and the idea to have a black student's organization came in part from the fact that students at other predominantly white universities were doing this. So, we had the Black Power Forum and then some other things happened: the cafeteria workers went on strike that year, and quite a few of the cafeteria workers were students from A&T [North Carolina Agricultural and Technical University]. And, so there was that link: the students from A&T and the black students here. And 28:00so we became kind of more united with the black students, the cafeteria workers, than with our university. Okay, and so we supported the cafeteria workers strike. We did marches and sit-ins and sit-downs at the Administration Building and things like that in support of the cafeteria workers strike. Some of the students from A&T, some of the cafeteria worker-students were at the negotiating table for the cafeteria workers and where before you had seen them in their white cafeteria worker's uniform, they had on suits with briefcases and it was just kind of fun. That was pretty, just pretty fun to see that transformation 29:00and it was just simply exhilarating to be a part of this movement. And so anyway, there-And I'm among the group of black students at that time who really saw the black movement as more my ambition, you know, than academics, okay. There were some of us who went that way. And began to meet with the students from A&T and Bennett [College] out in the city and to do work in supportive 30:00activities that they were also involved in. Black organizations grew up in Greensboro, North Carolina. The Greensboro Association of Poor People, the Students Organized for Black Unity. These organizations grew up in Greensboro and I and some others, I guess about twenty or thirty black students, really gravitated towards that. Okay, so that's how that developed. On campus we struggled for a black history class and it was our efforts, I won't say the 31:00Neo-Black Society per se, that was like going after this black history class. I'm trying to remember the form that that took. It was a black-student-led movement for this and petitioning the university-It wasn't really hard to get it.

SM: It just took somebody trying.

MS: It just took somebody trying and the head of the history department, Dr. Richard Bardolph, was for it. Matter of fact, Dr. Bardolph wanted to teach the course. Yes. You know of him?

SM: Yes. I've heard a couple of people talking about him, so he's a familiar name. And I was part of the history department so I-

MS: Exactly, exactly. But anyway, Dr. Bardolph, he was a great professor; he 32:00wanted to teach the course. He had done research in civil rights and all of that. Just sitting there, he was not teaching it but he had all this research that he had done. And here was an opportunity to teach it. But we rejected Dr. Bardolph; we rejected Dr. Bardolph teaching the course. We wanted a black professor and so he helped with that. He helped.

SM: And was there already a black professor on staff at that point?

MS: No. No. We had a-the professor who taught black history at UNCG was on the faculty at, I think, North Carolina Central University [Durham, North Carolina]. 33:00Yes. He came up one day out of the week and taught the class.

SM: So was that a compromise? I mean, were you guys okay with that or did you want UNCG to get-

MS: We were okay with that.

SM: You were okay with that?

MS: Yes. Yes. We were okay with that for the moment because what we really wanted was the class. We wanted black history to be taught at UNCG. And that, we felt, was a great victory.

SM: Did-Was it a predominantly African American class?

MS: It was. It was.

SM: Did white students take it?

MS: I think there were maybe two. Yes, two white students. I think that Phil-I can't think of Phil's last name right offhand-but he was in the class. Yes. I think there were two white students.

SM: That's really interesting. Did the Neo-Black Society do any other kinds of 34:00like, I mean they were political, and they were involved in change but were there other things that they did, even socially or-

MS: Well, actually, actually it became a great social organization for the black students; whereas some black students weren't even involved in any other organization at all on campus. But they found this home and there was a black student's lounge in Elliott Hall.

SM: Yes. I think there still is.

MS: It's still there? Yes. It's still there. And so, that didn't happen right away. In '67, '68 we formed the Neo-Black Society and met in one of the big 35:00lounges at Elliott Hall. That's where we had our meetings. And we met numerous times to form the organization and named the organization Neo-Black Society. That was different, too, because other black student organizations were calling themselves the black student union and stuff like that. But then we came up with the Neo-Black Society. It was okay though.

SM: Why did you guys come up with that name as opposed to, like-At [University of North] Carolina [at Chapel Hill] I know that the organization came around about the same time but it was called the Black Student Movement?

MS: See, I know. [laughs] Right. Well-

SM: What about "neo?" What, I mean-

MS: I don't know. I just-I would say and I have to just be blunt in this 36:00interview. I hope you don't mind.

SM: Right. No.

MS: Yes. I think it had to do with the kind of black student at UNCG which was mostly women, you know, it was mostly women, but there were some black men. And these women who came to UNCG were pretty much looking to go-be like the black person in the company or wherever they were going, so there was that kind of, kind of a sense of what we might call, during that time, the black bourgeoisie and the name, it kind of was like that, too, as far as I'm concerned. [laughter] Yes, it was just kind of like that. Do you know where I'm speaking about when I 37:00say the black bourgeoisie yes, yes, and actually, actually the black students, were thought of that way by some in some quarters, were looked upon-the black students here were looked upon kind of "bourgie." Yes. I just remembered that, but still there were new people coming in who were not from well-to-do backgrounds, [such as] myself. And so there were more people in the Class of '70, who came in 1966, who were from poor backgrounds than previously, I believe. And so many of us, then, freshmen and sophomores [were] here at this 38:00time when the Neo-Black Society was being formed [and] were really, really, really for UNCG black students being a part of the movement, but then we had to deal with the kind of flavor of the mixture of black students and I think the name came about like that. See, it wasn't a name that had fight in it, any fight, any sense of struggling for the change.

SM: Right. It was descriptive.

MS: But being a part of the change, right?

SM: You were-you were obviously very involved with the Neo-Black Society. Were you ever, like, an officer or did you guys have that kind of structure or-?

MS: We did. We did have that kind of structure. I wasn't ever so much for being 39:00spokesperson or like that. I wasn't so much for it and I was actually offered the presidency, because it started my sophomore year and there were some freshmen at UNCG at that time who were really militant. And so-And I was kind of militant but not quite as much as they were. And so, the first year-I can't quite remember who was the president. But anyway, then the second year I was a junior and these people were sophomores and so I really had, how should I say, I would have been-it would have been right for me to be president because I had 40:00more seniority, so to speak. And they came to me, these more militant students, and asked me if I wanted to be president because if I didn't want to be president then Annie wanted to be president, even though she was-Oh, well. I was a junior, then these other girls were sophomores and Annie was only a freshman.

SM: Really.

MS: Yes.

SM: What was her last name; do you remember?

MS: King. Annie King. Yes, she was only a freshman so they had to ask if it was okay for her to be put forward as president over me. And I said, "Sure." [laughs]

SM: Were you ever involved in any other kind of clubs on campus?

MS: On campus? Well, let me think. Let me think back.

41:00

SM: Because, for whatever reason, your senior yearbook doesn't-Most of the time in other years-

MS: Oh.

SM: It's got water [stains on it]. It has [the activities in] which you were involved in all four years.

MS: Yes, but I think that it's in the back.

SM: They changed the format, I guess, on that. MS: See, it's in the back though. [turning pages] When you find your name back here somewhere. Yes, when you find your name back here-

SM: Oh, okay. That'll tell you what you were involved in.

MS: Exactly. I have to look and see what I was in.

SM: That's interesting; they changed the format up that year because every other year they had-

MS: Yes, they just wanted to do something different. Marie Darr, where's my name? Okay, here we go. Marie Darr, Elizabeth Darr, BA History, Junior Ring Committee.

SM: Junior...what?

MS: Junior Ring Committee, I don't remember what it was about.

42:00

SM: Oh Ring. That's weird.

MS: German Club, 3. Oh, look. Oh here we go, Neo-Black Society, 2, 3, 4.

SM: Okay, so that was sophomore, junior, senior-

MS: Right. "Chairman, Community Liaison Committee." Right, see, because of being involved with the other, students from other schools, and all. "GUTS," that stands for Greensboro United Tutorial Service.

SM: Okay.

MS: Yes. Greensboro United Tutorial Service. I was in that my sophomore, junior, and senior years and I was assistant coordinator.

SM: What kind of things would you do there?

MS: Oh, we tutored kids.

SM: Kids, like elementary kids?

MS: Yes, elementary kids. It was wonderful; it was great. And-

43:00

SM: How did you get involved in that?

MS: Well, it was part of the "Great Society." Yes. Lyndon Johnson's ["Great Society"]. It was part of all those different kinds of agencies and what-not that came about to help pull black people up, you know, and Greensboro United Tutorial Service was a city-wide organization and so there were students from all the colleges involved and so we here at UNCG, a few of us, were in it. And I had a roommate who was two years ahead of me, Cathy Hargrove, and her senior year was my sophomore year and she was coordinator of it. She was very involved with the community liaison so she kind of primed me, I got involved with it 44:00because of her and then my, I guess, my senior year I was, no my junior year. Oh, my junior year I was assistant coordinator and my senior year I was coordinator

SM: Oh, wow! So you were very involved.

MS: Yes, see I was very involved, yes. And okay, in-and I was a section leader my junior year. I lived in the International House.

SM: What does "section leader" mean exactly?

MS: Well, I think this has to do with the dorm, if I'm not mistaken. I think that has to do with the dorm and, as I said, I lived in the International House in my junior year-

SM: It says just "German?"

MS: On the German floor. Yes. On the German [floor] we were supposed to speak 45:00the language. [laughter] I know, it was so fun, but we didn't speak it all the time, but it was really, really fun because we had Seiglinda who was totally fluent in the language [and] was kind of the leader of the floor. There was the German floor, the French floor and the Spanish floor. That was a great dorm. I tell you.

SM: What dorm were you guys in for the International House?

MS: It was either Hawkins or Gray [Residence Halls], I forget which one. Either Hawkins or Gray was the International House. Yes. That was the best as far as my UNCG academic school experience, living in the International House, it was just the best. I mean-[laughs]

46:00

SM: And you just did it your junior year? You were just in the International House?

MS: I only lived in the International House my junior year.

SM: What did you do senior year?

MS: Senior year, I lived in one of the high rise dorms.

SM: Okay, so like Cone [Residence Hall] or, I don't know the other ones.

MS: I'm trying to remember which dorm that was I lived in my senior-

SM: Those were brand new, I guess, at the time.

MS: Yes, I'm just trying to remember which dorm I lived in my senior year. I have to think back: my sophomore year, I lived in a high-rise dorm.

SM: Okay.

MS: That I'm sure of. Cathy and I roomed together. Cathy who was head of GUTS and very involved with the community-we were roommates. Yes. SM: Okay, Do you remember which high rise that was?

MS: It was-Sure, it was Phillips-Hawkins Dormitory.

SM: Phillips-Hawkins. Okay.

MS: Yes, Phillips-Hawkins. And I'm just trying to remember where I lived my senior year. It's kind of fuzzy. Yes. But, but I don't know, for a variety of 47:00reasons, I didn't decide to go back to the International House. It just-I think it just had to do more with my activities and social life.

SM: Interesting. Well, did you have a good experience living in the dorms? I mean, you said you loved the International House; what about the other years?

MS: I did. I loved it. Yes, yes. All the dorms except I can't remember the last year so-[laughter] I think it must have been fine, though. At least it wasn't terrible. I would remember that.

SM: Anyway your senior year you were done living dorm life. You were over it.

MS: Probably so. [laughter] But anyway-Yes, I did. I enjoyed it. It was wonderful. The freshman year, like I said, I was in Bailey and we had lots of 48:00gatherings in the rooms and that kind of thing. My second year was such a big change, though, such a big change, living with a senior and being involved in the community and all, such a big change. But we were-We were cool, I mean, I felt, I didn't feel racial prejudice and that kind of thing in the dorms.

SM: Yes. I was going to ask if you could tell me about how whites and blacks interacted.

MS: Yes, I'll talk about that. Yes. I'll talk about that.

SM: Because before your time, the decade, you know they-Blacks had their own floor, they were-There was the whole fear of sharing bathrooms, things like that, so-Eventually, that lasted only a few years and then-

MS: Right, right.

SM: -White students started to get mad that, you know, "We're four to a room. 49:00Why can't we move down to that floor? We don't, we don't care, to share."

MS: Exactly.

SM: So they'd have to have their parents approve it or whatever, and I think that the administration probably caught on that, you know, they were trying to push something that was not going to happen.

MS: Yes, they were four to a room.

SM: Yes, they were, like, "We do not want-" There were empty open rooms on that floor but-so eventually they were getting mad about being so cramped.

MS: Exactly, exactly. But just to finish up the dorm life, I guess I am done with that. I did want to make that point, that I did not have an experience-I mean, I'm sure there was some prejudice but that wasn't my main experience in the dorms. [And I think that was] because we all, the black students and the white students, we were all coming to college during the time of this awakening. 50:00Yes. And so you could see that in the student relationships.

SM: Were the high-rise dorms suite style, or were they still halls? Were you in like a long hall with a bathroom, or were you like four rooms sharing a suite style bathroom?

MS: Phillips-Hawkins was a hall. I remember that clearly, that it was the bathroom with the stalls. I remember that clearly. Are there dorms now with the suite style?

SM: I don't know. At Carolina, all of our dorms are suite style.

MS: No it's not that way. I don't think any of the dorms were like that.

SM: Interesting. Well, can you tell me about experiences, like, in the dining halls? Were 51:00there ever any issues? I know you said the cafeteria workers' strike-had a strike.

MS: Yes, they had a strike. Now what stands out in my memory is that the black students really did group together a lot, I mean a lot. Because, you see, there were many of us now. With my class in '66 I mean, I don't know the figures but I think we probably doubled the number of black students that were on campus and so there was quite a big group of black students and the older, the upper classmen wanted to kind of mentor, kind of advise the under classmen. They kind 52:00of played that role and in the cafeteria we mostly sat together, yes, mostly. But not always. We had kind of a freedom at UNCG to sit with the blacks but if you wanted to, you could sit with your white friends. Yes. We just tended, tended more to sit together. Is that the kind of thing you were wondering about?

SM: Sure. We were just wondering about-Because, obviously we ask kind of everybody the same questions because we want to see the change from the first students-

MS: Yes, yes.

SM: -who were one of four or one of three as opposed to-

MS: I know.

SM: -you guys, who had a community.

MS: Yes, we had a community. Yes, definitely. We learned from each other. Like I said, the upperclassmen were just really good about like, giving advice and 53:00helping you out and stuff like that. [That's how it] was my freshman year and my sophomore year, but by the time I was an upperclassman, you know, junior and senior, the-there were just lots more black students and they seemed to be kind of more hip and sharper black kids. Yes, because they were really these kids coming in [with the attitude] "Okay, now it's about change, now there's going to be some change." Yes, it was like that.

SM: Do you remember any kind of, like, social or academic events? You talked about the blacks forum, the Black Student Forum, was there anything else like that, or concerts or kind of extra things that the university hosted, that you can remember?

MS: Sure.

SM: What kind of things stand out in your mind?

54:00

MS: Well, I mean, you know, the university had wonderful concerts and lecture series and all, just, wonderful and I guess the one that I myself remember the most would be the Dionne Warwick-

SM: Dionne Warwick. I wondered if that was going to be it. I heard about that concert. That's a big name, I mean-

MS: Yes, and at the time I was singing. I was in the Glee Club. Well, it's not even in here and I was in it, I was in the Glee Club. Yes. I was in the Glee Club for one or two years. Yes. Oh, that was wonderful. I loved that, and then I was singing at talent shows and stuff like that, I was singing and I mostly sang Dionne Warwick songs.

55:00

SM: Okay.

MS: Yes. "What's It All About Alfie?" [song made famous by singer Dionne Warwick] and all like that. [laughter] And so Dionne Warwick came, she came to campus and of course I was there and after the show, some of us were out there at the dock and we were just saying, "Dionne, Dionne, come out." And "Come out," and they were trying to wait for everybody to leave before coming out. She didn't want to be mobbed but Terry [Editor's note: Weaver was Terry's last name], what's Terry's last name who was head of the student union, Elliott Hall for a while?

SM: I don't know

MS: It'll come to me the last name. But anyway she was the director type person.

SM: Is this a student?

MS: No this was staff. Anyway her first name was Terry, and she knew how I was singing, because these talent shows would be in Elliott Hall student 56:00union.And so Terry said, "Let Marie come in."

SM: Wow.

MS: Yes, she did. She let me come in. so I could meet Dionne Warwick and, you know, just tell her how much I loved her and her music and could she come to my room for a cup of coffee. Yes, it was just so crazy.

SM: So you actually got to meet her?

MS: I got to meet her! Actually got to meet her. Yes.

SM: Wow. Great.

MS: It was great. It was great. Because, like I said, I was singing her songs and that was, I guess, maybe if you want to say, like, what you did at college that kind of stood out the most. Yes, I think it would probably be the singing.

SM: And were these concerts like Dionne's? Was it at Aycock Auditorium?

MS: Aycock. Yes. At Aycock Auditorium. And you know there were just lots of 57:00really wonderful concerts and lectures and all. I mean, I looked upon UNCG as a really good school [when it came to change] that we asked for. We, of course, wanted it to be more of a thing of us fighting for it [because] we had that militancy, some of us. But UNCG seemed to be good about change.

SM: They responded well.

MS: Yes. Responded well. Yes, I would have to say that.

SM: Well, that kind of goes into my next question. What can you remember about interactions with faculty or staff? Do you remember anything specifically about faculty members? You remember Bardolph, but other professors?

58:00

MS: Yes, Sure. Sure. I interacted with a number of faculty members. I would go to them you know, about the class and you, maybe some problem I had in getting it or whatever. I was fine with doing that, and I did it, I mean, too many to even really name but some faculty members, well I would have to say Dr. Warren Ashby [philosophy professor] was just, he and I were actually pretty close. I took a philosophy of religion course with him. I did very well in it. It just seemed like I should have majored in philosophy. Here we go again. And can't you kind of tell that this is probably what I should have majored in. [laughter]

59:00

SM: Right. I can see history too, though. They're kind of inter-linked.

MS: Yes. Yes. And yes, Dr. Warren Ashby was just very liberal and open-minded and just really wanted to move forward with [equality in the] society, very, very good person and after I graduated from UNCG, he started the Residential College, I don't know if you ever heard of it? Yes. He did. And what had happened was I got a job at UNCG in the admissions office right out of school. Yes. They needed someone to work in recruitment, black student recruitment. And 60:00so they hired me to be that person. Yes.

SM: How long did you do that?

MS: Just one year because Dr. Ashby started the Residential College and asked me to teach there.

SM: Wow.

MS: Yes. Yes.

SM: So how long did you do that?

MS: I think, for a couple of years. SM: So what did you teach exactly? What was the role-?

MS: Yes. Well, at the Residential College students and faculty collaborated on developing the curriculum. It was cool. So, we taught black courses, even a course in the black church-and black history and just various aspects of the black experience, we developed courses.

SM: Right. Wow.

MS: Yes. It was cool.

SM: I know that that was-I saw something, actually on UNCG's website that they were commemorating an anniversary of the Residential College. And it was very cutting edge at the time. Very new.

61:00

MS: It was. It was very [new]. And so Dr. Ashby asked me to come there [to] teach [and] work with the black students there [and that] bespeaks of a good relationship with him. Just to finish with that question you were asking, I would just say that I never, never had a professor that I felt was not interested. There were some professors I didn't approach if it was a big lecture class, but I mean, if I approached a faculty member about my experience with the 62:00class, I never felt any strain. Does that answer your question?

SM: Yes, definitely. We love to hear specific kinds of memories about professors you know. What would you say was your-I mean, you had a relationship with students at Bennett and A&T through the Neo-Black Society. Did a lot of people from your high school go to those two colleges? I mean, did you know anybody else?

MS: Well, my cousin was at A&T. Yes. We graduated together. Yes, she went there for nursing.

SM: Okay. So would students at UNCG interact with those two schools or was it just kind of through the organization or-

MS: No. Well, it was through the community liaison part of the Neo-Black 63:00Society, not the Neo-Black Society as a whole but the community liaison part of the Neo-Black Society. Students who were in that, black students who were on that committee really did things with students at A&T and Bennett since, as I've said, there was a movement going on in Greensboro, okay, and so the students that we got together with from A&T and Bennett were also involved in the movement, in the community. Okay, so there was that kind of thing. Now, just in general, in general, like, some students, some black students had friends and 64:00all at A&T, probably almost everybody at UNCG probably knew somebody at A&T or Bennett you know, especially A&T because it's just the big state school and I think-So there was that, there was just that-If you know people you might-I had a cousin there so I met some of her friends. Like that, and so we just got together like that and there was some dating. Like we dated some guys from A&T and-yes, there was that. SM: There weren't many men at UNCG in general, I'm sure, during your time. It was still you know-

MS: Exactly.

SM: -predominantly women.

MS: Exactly. There weren't many men so before our year-yes, I have to say before 65:00'66 the black women at UNCG, for the most part, were dating men from [University of North Carolina at] Chapel Hill and [North Carolina] State [University in Raleigh] and Wake Forest [University in Winston-Salem], for the most part because they were bourgie [laughter] but anyway.

SM: Well, they used to send-

MS: Yes, the busses.

SM: Mostly white students sent busses of girls- [laughs]

MS: Yes, I went down, I went down on a bus; I went down on a bus.

SM: -sent women to football games to [unclear]

MS: Why sure they did. Yes. We went down on a bus, I went on the bus.

SM: And now my generation, I think the last thing men want to do is take women to football games, I mean they don't want to date for football games. They want to go with their boys and play sports and not be distracted by women but back then it was a-

MS: Yes, yes, but it was a way to meet.

SM: Yes, and it was like a dating ritual [unclear].

MS: It was a dating ritual. Yes. And so before my year for the most part the 66:00black women students dated men at the predominantly white schools, but with my year, and there were some people in the year just before mine, who were sophomores at the time, some, a few dated guys at A&T and in the community, mostly A&T because A&T had an abundance of men, now. There was an abundance of men at A&T and so there was that kind of interaction.

SM: So, would a lot of people in your year and grade, would they take A&T men to dances and parties [unclear]?

MS: Yes, yes. That would happen. Actually, even my freshman year, I had a date 67:00for the ball, some kind of ball, that they had. It was an annual thing here at UNCG and you know, you'd have a gown and all and my date was from A&T. I didn't know him before but-Another girl from my high school went to UNCG. Yes, two of us-Two of us went to UNCG-And her brother was at A&T and so he got me a date for the ball.

SM: And was she your same year?

MS: My same year.

SM: Oh, and you guys didn't room together or anything?

MS: No, we didn't room together. No. I guess we just wanted to branch out. Yes, we wanted to branch out. And she didn't finish, she didn't finish UNCG. I'm 68:00trying to think if she came back the second year, you know.

SM: Did you find that a lot of your classmates didn't make it or didn't stay with it?

MS: What, my classmates [in] freshman year?

SM: Yes. Was there-Black students who had a hard time adjusting or-

MS: Yes. I mean I was having a hard time but- [laughter] I was having a hard time; I think maybe [others] were having a hard time, too. And we did talk about it. We talked that we were having a hard time but there were white students on the hall, too, who were having a hard time and we didn't so much think that it 69:00was because we were black, but in truth it was because of the segregated school that I went to and yes, I was aware of that.

SM: We've had some ladies who were biology majors and who had never seen a microscope. And so, the first day, I mean, they are so far behind because black schools didn't get the kind of materials that the white schools did.

MS: Exactly. True, true. And so my friends, a number of my friends, a number of my friends didn't make it the first year and Edith, seems like Edith did make a 2.0 and came back the next year but not the next year, I think. Yes. And then I had a really good friend who wasn't in my dorm but she became active in the 70:00movement, too-she's from Durham, Noma-and Noma just wasn't happy at UNCG. She transferred to Hampton [University in Hampton, Virginia], see, because she just wasn't happy. She was from Durham and her family was, like, well-to-do and all, and she was just used to just being in clubs and being the head of things and all like that and that wasn't happening at UNCG and she wasn't happy and so she just left and went to Hampton.

SM: Was there ever any thought for you, did you ever consider transferring?

MS: Well, I was just about to say, I did. Yes. And Noma was transferring and I said , "Well, I think I need to transfer, too and not go to Hampton but somewhere else where maybe I would do better." And I can't quite remember where 71:00I thought I would go at the time-it could have been A&T. I probably would have done a lot better academically at A&T but I don't-I'm not sure that's where I was thinking I would go-just somewhere else-And I went to talk to the dean of women and she talked me out of it. Yes, she talked me out of it.

SM: Dean of women, who was that at that time? Was it Mereb Mossman or was it?

MS: What's another name?

SM: Katherine Taylor? Those are the two deans we have. She might be in your book, actually.

MS: She might be in the book because those names don't sound like her. Maybe it wasn't the dean of women. Maybe it was the, don't they have a dean, after they 72:00make chancellor, vice chancellors, something like that? Maybe it was the vice chancellor.

SM: We have Dr. Otis Singletary [chancellor] and Chancellor James S. Ferguson

MS: Ferguson? Isn't there, like, you know, an assistant? Who was that lady? It wasn't Katherine Taylor and it wasn't Mereb Mossman. It was neither one of them who I talked to. But, I'll see if I can find her. Now, where is the faculty? Now, okay. Here's some faculty let me see. Yes, she talked me out of it. Whoever it was.

SM: And was this after your freshman year? Did things improve, I mean, over the two years?

MS: So, I had the freshman year and I made it through the freshman year. Yes, I 73:00felt pretty good about it. I felt pretty good about my freshman year, to tell you the truth. I had a 2.5; I made an A, B, C and D. [laughter]

SM: Yes, I mean-We've heard so many stories of people who had never seen an F before and were just-I mean, I think to have made it, in itself-A lot of people didn't make it that first year, so, I mean-

MS: That's right.

SM: To make a 2.5, I mean-

MS: Yes, that's right.

SM: That's actually-pretty normal for any college freshman to-

MS: Right. Right, right. So, yes, but anyway it was my sophomore year when I was thinking about leaving. I think-You know what it was, Sarah? I'll tell you just what it was. It was that I wanted to be at a black school. Now I'm not quite sure if I wanted to go to-Dr. Rosemary McGee, dean of women, right here. Its 74:00right here, Sarah.

SM: Good.

MS: Yes, Dr. McGee. See her right there?

SM: I do. Okay, great.

MS: It was her. Yes. Okay, so anyway, I talked to her and yes, she talked me out of it. Yes, I wanted to go to a black school. It was the black movement and everything it was probably not at the beginning of my sophomore year, but it was towards the end. Yes, I think it was towards the end. I didn't want to do my junior year at UNCG and that's what it was all about; it was just about going to a black school. And didn't, it wasn't because I didn't feel I could succeed at UNCG. That wasn't it. I just felt I should be at a black school.

SM: Right. I remember another lady who did transfer for that reason. She just-

MS: My friend?

SM: No, another lady who graduated earlier and she just said, "I wanted to go 75:00home. It was weird because I was from Greensboro but I was homesick for the community I had grown up in."

MS: Yes, yes, yes.

SM: So she went to a historically black college.

MS: She transferred? Oh, yes. She didn't finish at UNCG; she started at UNCG but didn't finish. Yes, so-I thought you only were interviewing people who-

SM: We were. She was mislabeled in our records so we interviewed her anyway. But it kind of gave us a different perspective of someone who ended up deciding it wasn't for them.

MS: Yes, exactly.

SM: Well, one of my other questions is what was-I mean, we kind of touched on this-but if you could say one aspect or one part of college was your favorite, what would you say that was? Anything you were involved in or any kind of a memory?

MS: Yes, we touched on it and I talked about the singing and that was just kind of the pure joy of it, but that wasn't my favorite aspect of college. Yes, I 76:00mean I have to say my favorite aspect was being introduced to the black movement. That was. That was it. I felt that was the purpose. That was my purpose in life at that time. Yes.

SM: Did the black-Neo-Black Society and the black movement-did that come kind of as on the death of Martin Luther King, Jr.? Was that kind of on the tails of that? I mean, that was about the same time.

MS: Right, right, right. Well, that-Yes, yes yes.

SM: Or do you have any memories about the assassination? MS: I do. I do have memories about that. I do. We really-that was in the spring of '68, correct?

77:00

SM: Yes.

MS: Yes, a lot happened that year so now that you mention that, Sarah, I feel sure the Black Power Forum was in the fall. I feel sure that it was because we already had quite a bit of movement going on on the campus by the time Dr. Martin Luther King was assassinated so when that happened we were, there was this anger, there was this anger of the black students and we kind of went around. I think we, some of us wanted to get together with the community, and you know we-I don't remember the Neo-Black Society doing anything in particular. 78:00I don't remember any particular meeting or forum or anything like that that we had but it was just this anger and those of us who were militant became more militant.

SM: Do you remember where you were when you heard the news that he had been assassinated? It was kind of famous "where were you?" moment in life.

MS: Yes, It seems like I was in the Soda Shop. Yes. I believe I was in the Soda Shop.

SM: And where was the Soda Shop?

MS: In the student union, yes.

SM: In the student union?

MS: Yes. And so some of us were, you know two or three of us were sitting together and Phil and his girlfriend came and sat with us and it just wasn't the right time. Phil was a white student in the-who took the African American 79:00history class. And I mean he was very liberal and everything but it just wasn't the right time for white students, white people to come and sit with us, it just wasn't and so that was a very uncomfortable meal for Phil and his girlfriend. They didn't say anything. We were just talking about how angry we were and about white people and this and that and we were just-And so it was just like that. I remember going around for a few days like that- Just kind of mad at white people. Yes. And so the white friends just kind of had-I mean they couldn't be with us. They couldn't you know-They were kind of 80:00shut out. Yes. That was one expression of how we felt about the assassination of Dr. King. It was that. Yes.

SM: Do you remember anything about-kind of to frame your time at college with the time period in the larger sense. Do you have any memories or feelings about what you felt with the escalation of the Vietnam War? Was that a big topic on campus?

MS: It wasn't that I know of, such a big topic on campus but the same organization that sponsored the Black Power Forum sponsored anti-Vietnam activities. Yes. And this is reminding me of something about UNCG. See, it was, 81:00it seemed like UNCG was kind of like a comfortable place. And most of the people coming to UNCG were about, about their academics and going on to teach or whatever they were going to do, just kind of like not making waves, not involved in things. Just getting married and having a family, having a job like that. So for myself I remember that there were some students who were just more 82:00conscious, who were more conscious. And so these students in this organization that sponsored the Black Power Forum were some of the more conscious students and it was like, like, just a segment of the campus, as I recall, that was that way. It wasn't like there was a big movement, anti-war movement on campus. No. No, it wasn't. And I feel the only reason the black power movement seemed to kind of reach out, like more into the college was because of the black students that were dispersed throughout the campus. And that was the reason but still it 83:00was a small segment of students that were involved in that.

SM: Right, proportionately.

MS: Yes, proportionately.

SM: You kind of-you touched on the Soda Shop made me kind of think of: What other kinds of places did you guys go to hang out or to have fun? What kind of things would you do like on the weekends? Even though you-sounds like you didn't have much time; you were very involved in lots of things.

MS: Right, [there were] house parties. Oh, that was the big thing, I mean, that was just really the big thing at the time. We would go to parties at different students' [apartments]. There would be a party every weekend somewhere,

84:00

SM: So people were starting to live off-campus at this time?

MS: Go off campus, yes, for sure. Now some of my white friends did have-

SM: Did have house parties?

MS: Had lived off campus. Yes. I don't know of black students-I'm trying to think if there was a black student who lived off-campus. The black students didn't too much live off-campus like my freshman, sophomore, junior years I couldn't say-I don't know of any black students who lived off-campus. But then my senior year I knew-I had friends who lived off-campus, white friends who lived off campus and I had a boyfriend and I was off campus with him a lot. So I 85:00kind of halfway lived off campus because I spent a lot of time with him. And he-

SM: Was he a student?

MS: He was [a graduate student in art at UNCG and] he was on the faculty at A&T. He was young, though; he was young, an art teacher over there at A&T.

SM: Interesting.

MS: Yes, yes. And I guess that's why I can't quite remember my senior year housing that well.

SM: [laughs]

MS: I was wondering what was it about that senior year but I was there a lot, at my boyfriend's a lot.

SM: That's interesting.

MS: So yes. So anyway, yes, really the house parties were just really the thing to do on the weekends, gatherings and stuff. Yes.

SM: And did people hang out at Yum-Yums or The Corner and places like that?

MS: Not so much hanging out. You would go there for a hot dog. Or just go 86:00there to get something. I mean we went there to get stuff a lot, but no, we didn't hang out. And the Ratskeller was down there. And I went there a few times to the Ratskeller on Tate street, just a few times, not every weekend.

SM: And did people venture downtown ever for social stuff or shopping?

MS: Well shopping, for sure. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Shopping for sure. Just kind of in a normal way where you would go to buy that outfit or whatever. And just normally, as far as your shopping-Yes, downtown to the stores although there were some nice shops on Tate Street. Yes. Yes, I remember shopping, in 87:00particular-I can't think of the name of it but It was nice and I bought clothes there a few times. Yes.

SM: Did you have a car ever on campus?

MS: I never did.

SM: So you always had to-

MS: Take the bus, yes. But I had a boyfriend with a car. [laughs]

SM: So that worked out.

MS: Yes, that worked out. Yes.

SM: Interesting. Well we've touched on what you did after graduation for the few years you worked in admissions and you worked in the Residential College. What did you do, kind of from that point on? MS: From that point on I became a revolutionary.

SM: Oh.

MS: Yes.

SM: So what does that mean exactly?

MS: Well, I actually-there was a radical movement, you know, in the country for a while after '68. Remember Chicago '68 and them-remember all that?

SM: The DNC [Democratic National Convention] and all that.

MS: The DNC and all that and then these very, very radical organizations grew up 88:00in the United States and were a factor for a while, became the target of the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] and so forth for a while and just as I think I may have alluded to the fact that I was one of the more militant students on campus after the Black Power Forum and as part of the Neo-Black Society, I took all this seriously and so for the next-so I was like twenty-two, twenty-three, four-the next seven/eight years I dedicated myself to working for change in the society with different organizations, labor organizations-I went to work at Cone 89:00Mills, the textile mill, and did labor organizing.

SM: Did you work for a union or did you work for Cone Mills-

MS: I worked for Cone Mills itself. Yes. Yes. I did that. I didn't need a college education for that but I found that my education helped me in what I was trying to do inside the plant, which was to organize the plant, which was to give leadership to the workers in the plant and so I was active in the union, in building the union; I was a shop steward; I could represent workers in grievances and things like that and I was able to give, like, a very strong kind 90:00of leadership based on my education and my passion for justice.

SM: And how long did you work at Cone Mills?

MS: I worked at Cone Mills for eighteen years. Yes.

SM: Wow. So probably, I guess, seventies into eighties or-

MS: Yes. Yes. Well, actually I didn't quit the plant until 1992.

SM: So you probably started late seventies then.

MS: Yes, I started in 1974.

SM: That's really interesting. I've done-last year our public history program did a-We've been doing a mill village project about the Cone Mill villages.

MS: I'm sure that was interesting.

SM: Yes, it was very interesting. I'm very interested in mills and mill villages. I did a project on-I made a DVD of oral history interviews with video about East White Oak, the black mill village [for black employees of Cone Mills 91:00in Greensboro, North Carolina] and kind of the black millworker experience.

MS: Yes, I'd like to see that, yes.

SM: We're going to have-and it's actually in the library. You can actually go and watch the DVD in the library. But from what I know about mills, it's interesting that Cone hired-you know, southern textile mills were usually very anti-labor union, so it's interesting that they hired you.

MS: They didn't know my background. No, I had to-

SM: Did they feel like by hiring you they could patrol the kind of process of unionization? I mean-

MS: They really didn't know my education level. I didn't put all that down on the application. They had no idea who they were hiring. They had no idea. It was, for all they knew, just a-how old was I-a twenty-five year-old or however old I was, I can't remember when I went to work there but-well, I was born in 92:001948 and I went there in 1974 so that made me-how old?-twenty-six?

SM: Twenty-six, yes.

MS: Yes. For all they knew it was just another twenty-six-year-old who needed a job. Who was looking for a job.

SM: What was your title exactly? Like what did they-

MS: In the plant?

SM: Yes.

MS: I was a worker in the plant I was a worker.

SM: You were a worker. Oh. You weren't just a-I mean, you were doing labor organization.

MS: Right, yes, just from the inside.

SM: Oh.

MS: From the inside, as a worker. You know, as another spinner. Yes.

SM: I thought you were actually like an office person, like a labor person, a liaison.

MS: Oh, no. Okay, no, no-

SM: You were actually a laborer.

MS: Just grass roots, yes, grass roots organizing. Yes, you know, just shop floor organizing.

SM: Was that something you enjoyed? I mean-

MS: I did, very much so.

SM: The textile work?

MS: I enjoyed the organizing, [laughter] very much so. And now that-see, I 93:00figured we'd talk enough and I'd get to the real, you know, thing. Now that we have gotten to this, that's what I was really interested in: organizing. Yes. Organizing people to stand up for their rights, demand their rights and I went on to do that for a while there at Cone Mills. I was fired a couple of times for union activity. The-I got my job back the first time and then the second time, I finally got my job back but no back-pay. And that case went on to the National Labor Relations Board and the AFL-CIO took up the case and represented me 94:00against the-and filed a claim-filed a suit or whatever, against the National Labor Relations Board. And the AFL-CIO represented me against the National Labor Relations Board at the 11th Appellate Court in Washington, DC and Ruth [Bader] Ginsburg was on the panel.

SM: Wow.

MS: Yes, she was one of the judges of the 11th Appellate Court. So yes, from those days at UNCG-see there-my life does show the tie between my experience at UNCG and what I did in life later. Yes. But in an unorthodox way.

95:00

SM: That's really interesting, because-I would think with your education and your background, you would want to go and work with the labor union, but if you're interested in kind of the grass-roots thing you wanted to be doing the work at the bottom level.

MS: Yes, and I did. And then following the '92-I actually did work for the union.

SM: Which union was it?

MS It was-at the time I started with it, it was the Textile Workers Union of America-no, the Textile Workers of America. The Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union [of American] merged [to form the Amalgamated and Textile Workers Union].

SM: Can you say that one more time?

MS: Amalgamated.

SM: What is that?

MS: Wait, I'll tell you but just get the name first. Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union, ACTWU. It was called "ACTWU." And so, anyway-I have to 96:00get my facts correct here. The Textile Workers Union and another union, maybe it was just the Clothing Workers Union, merged into the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union and the acronym is ACTWU and I went to work for ACWTU, yes, maybe 1994; 1993 or 1994. I went to work for them and I worked there for a few years until I just, how should I say, I had philosophical differences with 97:00the union bureaucracy. Yes. I had philosophical differences.

SM: Which-when you worked at Cone Mills, which mill were you employed in?

MS: White Oak.

SM: White Oak? I've been in White Oak. We had to tour it actually. [It] makes you appreciate-

MS: Right.

SM: -clothing. I mean, you don't appreciate where things come from until you see it, I mean-

MS: Until you see it.

SM: I walked through that dye room and it took my breath away with how badly it smelled and I couldn't imagine working in that eight hours a day.

MS: That's right. That's right. And so, I wouldn't have been in there myself if I hadn't gone in there to organize; for the express purpose of organizing. Yes. And so I feel that that's what I was meant to do. I don't have any regrets for 98:00not being more focused at UNCG and going into teaching; although I still yet may teach because I believe that I-

SM: Have experience.

MS: Have experience, yes.

SM: What made you leave Cone Mills in '92?

MS: Just life. I just had a lot of family tragedy and what-not. I was married and I have two children. Their father passed away. There was a lot of tragedy in the family and I just needed to-I just couldn't take working there anymore because I wasn't organizing anymore. The kind of family situation had drawn me off-drawn me away from the organizing. Just my taking care of my family and 99:00different problems and issues and what-not that had to be dealt with. So I wasn't really organizing and then the children's father got really sick and I was out for a while. And then he passed away and so I went back to work but it was just so-it just seemed so-how can I be here when my children need me? I was able financially to quit and so I did.

SM: Were your children young at that time or were they-

MS: They were young. They were nine and thirteen. Yes, they were nine and thirteen. And I was able to not work for a while, so I just didn't. The family had been through a lot and I just didn't work for a while. And it was after some 100:00span of time there that I then later went to work for the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union. So it was-that was the order of that.

SM Well, have you stayed in Greensboro ever since you went to college?

MS: Yes, I did. I stayed in Greensboro. This is where the movement was and the man that I married was involved in the movement, too. Yes. And we had our children here and I liked the schools here. There was no reason to leave.

SM Interesting. And do you stay in touch with any of your classmates, your former classmates?

101:00

MS: Well, not really. For a while I saw people who were in Greensboro also. But no, I don't-I don't stay in touch with them. I may get on Facebook later and then get in touch with people but I'm not on Facebook right now. Are you?

SM: I am. I was actually just thinking about-people from your generation are starting to get on Facebook.

MS: Yes, starting to. I guess I will eventually.

SM: Well, my mom is the same age as you and she-

MS: Is she on it?

SM: Well, she wants to be. She likes to look at mine. She just retired from teaching so now she feels like she can, without having, like, students slander her and things like that.

MS: Exactly, exactly.

SM: But she wants to do it to kind of-She's at a stage in her life where she's retired; she's not-She's kind of looking back on life-

MS: Yes, sure.

SM: -and so she's starting to-I caught her one day-like, she was a teacher and she was the yearbook editor and she's kind of down on teaching, tired of 102:00teaching, you know, been doing it for a long time-and I saw her looking through a yearbook, getting nostalgic, Now that it is done, she misses that part.

MS: Yes, exactly, exactly.

SM: Facebook is a good way to-for people to look back on people they hadn't thought about or things like that.

MS: Yes, and for that reason I'll get around to getting on Facebook, to make contact with some friends. I would like to. I would like to. I would like to see some of my friends from college.

SM: Right. You never know. I mean things like, that you were involved in the Neo-Black Society-And there might be a Neo-Black Society group from UNCG that-You know, it would be kind of cool to see the past and the present kind of converge. I'm sure they would be interested in things like that.

MS: Yes, yes. What I was actually-there was a Black Alumni Council for a while here and I participated with that for a while, not when it first started, and probably not until it was kind of dissolved, but 103:00for a few years I participated with the Black Alumni Council. It was a part of the Alumni Association and actually I was on the Board of Directors, the Alumni Board of Directors, for a term, for three years. So, anyway, the Black Alumni Council of the Alumni Association was dissolved, I think, if I'm not mistaken, during my term on the Alumni Board. We just couldn't quite see what purpose there was for it now. There was a purpose before but we couldn't quite see what would be the purpose now. I guess that it's just that the college is pretty much 104:00fully integrated, you know what I mean? It's fully integrated.

SM: That was my next question: Have you been involved with UNCG since you graduated? And you obviously have.

MS: Well, and I answered that.

SM: Yes, you went ahead and answered that. And neither of your children went to UNCG then?

MS: No. No.

SM: One, you said, went to Howard?

MS: My daughter. She did her undergraduate at Howard University in Washington. Yes. You know it?

SM: Yes.

MS: Yes, she went there for undergrad and she got a law degree from Harvard, Harvard Law School, in 2010. Yes. So she did that and she's interested in public interest [law].

SM: [laughs] I don't know where she got that from.

MS: Public interests and law. [laughter]

SM: She had this in her blood.

MS: It's true and she'll tell people that. And she is going on to get a master's 105:00in public administration from the School of Government [at UNC-Chapel Hill]. Yes. So she's doing that and she's just working on some things to get herself in a position to make the kind of difference that she wants to make. And my son, he's the older of my children, and he is the economics professor at the School of Government.

SM: Wow, that's amazing.

MS: Yes, yes.

SM: That's really cool.

MS: Yes, yes.

SM: And so where did he go to-?

MS: North Carolina State [University].

SM: He went to State?

MS: Yes, he got all his degrees-He has a doctorate in economics from North Carolina State.

SM: That's great. You've got very accomplished children and should be very proud.

MS: Yes, yes. They are. You know, it's a good thing. Yes, a good thing. I-that 106:00and organizing is what I've done. [laughter]

SM: Organized and raised accomplished, smart children.

MS: Yes, who are going to, I think-who are interested in contributing, you know what I mean? Interested in making a difference. It's not just about how much money they can make and I'm glad of that, although I feel you have to let your children be who they are and be who they want to be. And I didn't mold them that way but they learned from me, that this is important for your life: to contribute to change and making things better.

SM: And where did they go to high school in Greensboro?

MS: Grimsley [High School].

SM: Grimsley, okay. Because I was trying to think about it. I was, like, "Well, you worked at White Oak." So I was like, "That's kind of Page [High School] area" and then-

MS: Oh, I worked there but I didn't live there. You say you're from Greensboro? And where did you go to high school?

SM: I went to Northwest Guilford [High School]. I lived out in-We used to be in 107:00the county but now we're part of Greensboro. That's where my mom taught for a long time. So-but I love Grimsley. It's so historic. It's almost like a small college, you know? I didn't go to a school like that. I went to a school that was built in the sixties and it looks like a school that was built in the sixties.

MS: I know, I know exactly. Yes, I know what you mean.

SM: Well, that's really interesting.

MS: Yes, yes. So-Well, this had been fun with you, Sarah.

SM: Well, I have one more thing. What do you want-and this is a question we ask everyone-What do you want future students and scholars to know about your experience at UNCG? I know it's a hard question.

MS: Yes, it's a weighty question.

SM: Yes, it just something we like to end with. Just kind of sum it, everything, if you could. You know, if you had to give your elevator spiel to someone in a couple of seconds, what would you tell them?

MS: Yes, yes. Well, the way that I think about things is-when I look back at my 108:00life I wouldn't have changed anything that I have done, regardless of whether it's, like a good experience or a painful experience or whatever; I wouldn't change anything that I have done and UNCG is a part of that. And I feel that I grew a great deal at UNCG, that I found people who could help me understand what I had to give to society and I think that on a level, that is one of the most important things that you can get from a university experience: to come in as an eighteen-year-old and leave four or five years later, having been nurtured in 109:00one way or another, to find what you want to do and the way you want to go in your life.

SM: Right. That's interesting. Well, I don't have any more formal questions. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

MS: Well, no. Not really. I just want to end on that note and I'm glad that I did finally get together with you to do this.

SM: We are so glad. I mean, we're glad to end our project on kind of completing our decade. We got kind of all kinds of-from the very beginning to someone who really saw the university change and it's really, really interesting for me because I kind of wrap up my project, too. Well what we're going to do, is we have an interview agreement that just says that you can give us the 110:00permission to put in in the library, and you can just fill out that part...