Oral history interview with Merdith Carle, 1991 [text/print transcript]

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UNCG CENTENNIAL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Meredith Carle
INTERVIEWER: Missy Foy
DATE: May 19, 1991
[Begin Side A]
MF: If you could start with some general information like where you're from and when you came
to UNCG [The University of North Carolina at Greensboro] and so forth.
MC: Okay, well, I'm from Durham [North Carolina]. And I attended UNCG from the fall of 1983
until December of '87, and I received a BA [bachelor of arts] in history and got my teachers’
certification in social studies.
MF: Why did you pick UNCG?
MC: Three reasons. First of all, my mom [Carolyn McSwain Carle, class of 1957 commercial
course] was a graduate of UNCG. Secondly, because I went to Girls State [summer
leadership and citizen ship program sponsored by American Legion Auxiliary]. I attended
Girls state my junior year in high school and I got to see the campus, and I thought it was
beautiful because everything was green. Everything was in bloom. I thought it was beautiful.
And lastly, because of the [Greensboro] Coliseum. I like to see shows, and I was going there
anyway. [laughs] That played a big part.
MF: Okay. [laughs] I guess first why don't we talk about some of the faculty and coursework and
stuff and what you thought of, I guess, the academic side of the university.
MC: The academic side. Well, it depended on what department you were in and what course you
were taking. I was incredibly impressed with history. I mean I can't think of one professor
that should have retired. I was lucky. I felt very challenged academically. Some of the larger
classes really upset me though because when you have two to three hundred people sitting in
a big auditorium with one lecture for an hour. I realize there's a need for that because of
finances and there's so many students that have to take these required courses, but you lose
so much and you just end up memorizing and that was kind of unsettling. But academically I
thought it was challenging.
MF: What about the education department? They've come under a lot of fire lately.
MC: They have. Well, I was very rarely over there because I received secondary education and so
you have to receive your major in a field outside of education so I was only required to take
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twelve to fifteen hours, I think it was. Nine of those hours were student teaching. So—and I
only had two professors, three professors over there. Well, actually four. And all four of
them were exceptional. I mean they were tough. I learned so much from all of them, but I
was rarely over there. Out of four and a half years, I only took four courses in that building.
So I really didn't know the department at all. I just knew individual instructors.
I know the certification process was a joke because you have to fill out these
forms—where you want to student teach, you know, what city, town, county, everything and
everything I asked for I did not get. [laughs] They gave me the total opposite. And I thought
this was a waste of time.
MF: What kinds of stuff do you remember though about what was going on in the education
department while you were there?
MC: All I remember were the rumors. Like I said, I didn't see anything first hand. I just remember
people saying that it wasn't organized, that they were restructuring, that the faculty—. But
there was nothing concrete. I didn't hear anything concrete. I didn't see anything.
MF: It was just sort of a tone of dissatisfaction?
MC: Yes, yes.
MF: They are in the process of restructuring right now. In fact, they’re sending out these things
for people who went through teaching certification. I guess they're picking people randomly
to fill out these forms (Which reminds me, I still haven't filled it out.) because they are trying
to plan how to restructure. Do you remember—? I'm not sure you were still there at the time
when they decided to limit the number of students who could get into the elementary
education?
MC: I don't remember that.
MF: Okay, that might have been the year after you left. What about some of the other
departments because I mean, with any liberal arts degree, you have a lot of general college
courses you have to take.
MC: And I took all of that. I was not impressed with economics, the business school at all and that
was partly my fault. I signed up—I didn't like economics going in, so I took the minimum. I
memorized myself through that. I hated economics. I didn't like—the teacher was a nice man
but I didn't like his teaching method. I didn't even like going into B&E [Bryan School of
Business & Economics]. The science department I was impressed with. The chemistry labs
were great.
MF: Who did you have for chemistry? Do you remember?
MC: She was a short lady with glasses, short brown hair.
MF: I was wondering if you had—I can't remember his name. I think his name was Bilts [?].
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MC: Right. I can't remember her name but she was—
MF: Matt laughs at that. You know what I'm talking about.
MC: Right.
MF: Oh there were just rumors about the quality of a professor that he [unclear].
MC: I thought the teacher that I had was real good, but the students would just get up and walk
out daily. And I had no problems in the course because she taught exactly what she tested
on. And most everybody would get up and leave before she was finished. And I remember
her curving grade was thirty points, and I ended up having a test grade over a hundred
because I did fine on it without the curve because I was one of the few that were—it was a
hundred people in the class and by the time the hour was up there over half the people—
gone. It was very insulting. That's one thing I—one of my big gripes is people just got up
and left in the middle of lectures and some of my classes. And it was usually in science or
world civ[ilization]—western civ.
MF: Western civ, oh yeah, yeah.
MC: I think it was—that's the students—a lack of something.
MF: What about going to school that had a heritage of being an all girls’ school?
MC: That didn't bother me since my mom went. When my mom went there, it was like an all-women's
college. I wasn't really concerned about the ratio and all. It—in fact, I mean, yes,
there were more women there in my classes, but they went home on weekends. It was a
suitcase campus. So by the time the weekend rolled around, it was pretty equal. Actually
there were more guys out on the weekends then there were girls ’cause all the girls had
boyfriends back home. I mean my dorm—the place would just clear out. It was wonderful. I
loved it ’cause, you know—. So socially it didn't bother me at all.
MF: What about dorm life? You lived in a dorm for—?
MC: For three years. I lived in Mendenhall [Residence Hall]. I loved it. I liked my dorm because
we had huge walk-in closets. We had a sink in our room. We painted it, and brought in, you
know, nice conveniences from home, a microwave, everything. [laughs] It was home away
from home. I enjoyed living in the dorms. Like I said, most of the people would leave on the
weekends. It was—being an all-female dorm, it was mostly, usually, conducive to study. I
think I was the loudest rowdy on the hall. I was the one that had the stereo blearing. Most
people wouldn't.
I liked it because it kept me very informed as to what was going on campus, and
even though I didn't want to know what was going on on campus, you heard about it from
some side, from some student, some female walking around in the hall. And there's always
someone there to talk to and someone going through the same problem you're going through.
There's always a resource person. You come up against a brick wall, you'd find someone
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who would have an answer for you. I liked living in the dorm. I was ready to move out my
senior year because I wanted to be able to cook my own food and have my own bedroom.
But—and then, it was fun. I enjoyed it.
MF: On the weekend though the dorms would get pretty deserted, I guess. One thing is, I mean,
the dorms up until I guess around early seventies were still really strict, having been an all-female
school. How did that seem to work when you were there?
MC: They were strict, to be honest with you. I mean, you could get around the rules, but—I mean,
you had—they were very strict. I mean the receptionist was real good at stopping—and I
was glad because there were a few times when I would get up at three in the morning to go
to the restroom, and you had to go all the way down the hall and there would be some guy in
the stall next to you and, you know, if I didn't know the guy, it was like ugh. I didn't like it.
But then, of course, there were other rules, but they were pretty—they were strict. I mean,
you would get written up if you got caught. Most of the RAs [residence advisors] were really
cool about it. If they didn't see it, they weren't going to press you or pry into your private life.
But if they heard the music too loud or they saw the drinking or they knew—they saw the
guy—then they'd act on it. But if they didn't see it, it just went unnoticed.
MF: What about with visitation—males coming into the female dorms? I know that people have
said that with females going in the male dorms it was pretty much an open door policy in a
lot of the male dorms, but how was it in the female dorms?
MC: [laughs] I'm thinking. It was strict. I mean, they had to wait in the lobby. In fact, they had to
be in view of the receptionist whenever they came to visit ’cause in our dorm, you know,
there was a wall. You could walk around the corner, but the receptionist would make you
stand in his view. So they were strict. And they paged you and you had to come down. They
would not send somebody up. And depending on who was duty, you had to sign—I mean,
this is really picky, but you had to walk within three to five feet with that person so that
when people saw you they knew that this guy was with you.
MF: Oh, okay.
MC: See what I'm saying? If there was a ten foot space between the girl and the guy, then it looks
like the guy is roaming the halls and is not a visitor. But usually that went un—you know—it
wasn't really checked or enforced. There wasn’t really a need. But they didn't tell us that
when we first got there. They said, "Make sure you stand beside your visitor."
MF: What about with the male dorms?
MC: It depends on the dorms. It really depended on the dorm. It depended on who you knew. If
you knew the receptionist and, you know, you could probably go straight up to some guy's
room without him having—he would be paged. He would say, "Yeah, I'm here," and then
you'd be sent up or in Coit [Residence Hall], of course being coed, no problem. You just
walk down the girls' hall, and they think you're going to go to a girl's room. Then you go up
the steps to the second floor guys’ hall and you were there.
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MF: [laughs] Yeah.
MC: They didn’t even check, so it was rather wild in that dorm. It really depended on the dorm, I
think.
MF: What about Guilford [Residence Hall]?
MC: Great dorm. Great dorm. I never had any problem after they got to recognize my face. And I
visited there frequently my freshman year. Once they got used to seeing me, they knew
where I was going—they would just let me walk on up. I didn't have any problem getting
into Guilford.
MF: Guilford had sort of a reputation as the party dorm.
MC: Yes, it is. Yes, it did. And I—I don't know—each dorm has its own personality and the
people seem to stay there. Like Bailey [Residence Hall] was the jock dorm or Hinshaw
[Residence Hall] was the jock dorm, you know. And then you had Guilford, which seemed
to have more the theatrical students in it. Maybe that's because the people I hung out with
were all theater, or drama, or music or something, but it definitely had a personality of its
own. And it was a party dorm, more so than the others. But it wasn't blatant. It wasn't in the
hallways or anything like that. You just knew it was going on in every room.
MF: What about I[nternational] House?
MC: I think I House was a great idea. I knew—I worked with a girl who lived there. It's good
because it gives people who come from other countries a chance to at least be with someone
that they're familiar with, someone who's familiar with their culture. I like that. And I
thought, looking from a distance obviously, that they were integrated well. I mean, I had I
House, the people who lived in that dorm, in my classes, and there wasn't a problem. And I
think, and correct me if I’m wrong, weren’t other students who were not from other countries
allowed to live there?
MF: Yeah.
MC: Yeah, I think that's great because I know I worked with a girl who's majoring in some
foreign language (I couldn't tell you which one it was now.), and she lived in that dorm so
that she could be around some of the people. It was an odd language. I can't think of what. It
wasn't French or Spanish. But I liked the idea because they were integrated into, I thought.
MF: Sometimes I think people think that Shaw [Residence Hall] or I House, whichever you want
to call it, sort of sits apart from the dorms.
MC: Well, it kind of does but it's going to have to, I mean, because it's the international house, and
everyone there is from another country or from another culture so it has to stick out in some
way. But I think it's best for them if they're going to become adjusted to life in America on
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an American campus with American culture. I think it was best. And I know that some of the
people in that dorm would eventually move out into other dorms. I think that should be
encouraged once they felt comfortable. I think it's nice for them to have that beginning.
MF: And what do you remember about Residential College?
MC: I remember when I first heard about it, as Matt said earlier, they do have—the students there
do have this reputation for being different. I think some of them tried. They were the ones
who had the funny hairdos and the funny outfits and always walked around barefoot holding
their sandals in their hand and singing and whistling on campus. That's the impression. But
that's only such a small population of the Residential College because I took a class in
there—a history class—and it was like any history class I could have taken over at McIver
[Building]. It was small. It was on Latin American history. And you had—most of the people
in there were from Residential College. I wasn't. And they were normal. I mean, there was
nothing different from them than any other class I had sat in. So it's like the Residential
College does have this reputation because of a few very visible people that live there. I'm not
sure I understand the concept. You live there and then you go to school in the hall, take
classes?
MF: Well, you have to take the core courses. There's one core course each semester, and I think
that the whole idea was to promote some type of unity among the students that live there.
And then also there are other courses offered there that are sometimes unique that you can't
find on campus. And it was a coed living environment, and they would take camping trips
together once or twice a year and just—I guess it was to give a small school environment
within the university. I'm not sure exactly what the goal or mission was.
MC: I'm not sure. Well, they were kind of close knit though. They definitely were.
MF: What about some of the fraternities and sororities on campus because that was kind of a new
thing?
MC: Yeah, it was a new thing. In fact, I had some friends that were involved. It was very new. It
was nothing. The parties were really lame which—you know, it was just beginning. I
remember that some of the fraternities were having a hard time getting their membership up.
I think it was TEK [Tau Kappa Epsilon] at the time was having a hard time. The sororities—
I was very unimpressed with them. Very unimpressed. I would not have—I wasn't involved
with them at all. I didn't like the reputation. They all had very negative reputations from what
I heard in a female dorm. The mixers sounded like fun, but, you know, they used to go to
[University of North Carolina at] Chapel Hill and mix with other fraternities from UNC-Chapel
Hill, but I was very unimpressed. And then you had the black sororities and black
fraternities, and, to me, the only reason they stood out was not because it was an all-black
fraternity, it was their initiation where the sorority sisters had to walk around and carry the
plants and wear trench coats. Do you remember?
MF: Oh yeah.
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MC: And then the sorority—fraternity—would have to do the death march on campus. Do you
remember that? Like what? What's it called? [someone in background talking] Oh yeah.
What they did was so visible and so loud that you couldn't miss them. It wasn't that it was an
all-black sorority or fraternity, it was what they had to do to get into it that pulled them very
much apart. Very separated from the other Greeks, I thought, but—and they seemed to have
much more membership and much more drive and much more enthusiasm than the other
ones because I never really saw the other ones around except in the cafeteria.
MF: I think with the one black fraternity, didn't they also have—they weren't allowed during their
initiation to speak to anybody?
MC: I don't know if it was the fraternity or sorority, but if you ask them why they were carrying
the plant they had to go through the history of their sorority. I mean, [laughs]—It was
ridiculous. Yeah, they weren't allowed to speak. And the death march took hours. They took
a step every ten to twelve seconds or something. They moved—it was ridiculous. Well, it's
not ridiculous. I mean, they all have their little initiation processes, and theirs was the most
visible. I don't have any idea what the other initiation processes were, but I heard it's grown. I
heard the Greek system has grown. I have a friend who's involved now. He's a senior now at
UNCG, and he loves it. He's been in a fraternity every year he's been there, so I guess it's
improving as Greek systems go.
MF: What about—you know, talking about the black fraternities and sororities—what about race
relations in general on campus?
MC: Well, that was the most visible. The only thing I really remember hearing complaints about
what the homecoming. They'd always have four girls in the court: three white and one black.
So every black student on campus would vote for the black girl, and the black girl won every
year. I was very uninterested in homecoming. I could care less. I thought it was ridiculous
that a college, a university with that many students, would actually try to choose one person,
as if we're going to know this person. And I just don't even like the idea of having
homecoming. Maybe a court recognize some of those students who stood out, but not to
choose one as “queen,” but every new black girl was chosen. And that—you heard it in the
dorm a lot. There were a lot of complaints. "The only reason she got it is because she's the
only black girl in the court." And I hated to hear that, but that was the only—that and the
sorority and fraternities because they stood out. And I remember the A&T [North Carolina
Agricultural & Technical State University, Greensboro] students coming over and causing
problems late at night because the population of UNCG is very small; black population is
very small. And I think it's even smaller on the faculty. So, I don't think, I don't remember
any race problems other than the ones that were brought onto the campus.
MF: What about the Neo-Black society [campus organization that promotes African-American
culture]?
MC: You know, when you mentioned it earlier, I had forgotten all about that society existing. I
don't even remember what they did or why they were a group, so obviously they didn't make
a big impression on me. It doesn't concern me that they exist, so I really don't have anything
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to say about them.
MF: What about—I know at UNCG sometimes you hear people talk about there being a large gay
student population there. What do you remember about that?
MC: Oh, all right. I had a lot of gay friends, male and female. Sometimes it was depressing
because they would be rather attractive men. [laughs] But I had a lot of friends that were in
the drama department, so I met—it didn't bother me. I remember I did go to one rally just
because I wanted to see what it was like—the gay and lesbian society. I can't remember what
their name was. And they had it out in front of—I think it was either the student center or the
library. But it was a very big presence. The homosexuality was very big, particularly because
there were just enough students who, you know—we titled them as flamers because they
were very—men that had pocket books, you know, women that, you know, the way they
look very masculine so they were very visible so you knew it was on campus. Some of my
close friends were gay. I took classes with several of them. I was hit on by one girl and it was
very uncomfortable. But I never had a problem with it. It's not as if they—I hate to say
"they." It's like I'm separating us and them.
I remember I was in one class. It was a human sexuality in a historical perspective.
And I must have been the most unobservant person. We used to go out and have a beer after
class occasionally, and all of us—over half the class was sitting there and it somehow came
up and I was the only heterosexual sitting at the table and I had no idea. I couldn't spot—I
couldn't have told you their sexual preference by looking at them, by listening to them in
class, by drinking with them every Tuesday. To me, it's only visible because of the rumors
that are stated on campus. People think of UNCG as UNC Gay, as they say, but you don't see
it. But it's not like it's blatant. You don't see guys holding hands walking down the street or
any of that but you know it's there. But I think you know it's there on any campus. I don't
know why UNCG has gotten that reputation other than the fact that it is a liberal arts school.
MF: Right.
MC: And it's very theatrical.
MF: With their heritage as an all-girls school.
MC: Stuff like that, right. I mean it was a big presence but—
MF: How did some other students seem to react?
MC: Oh, very—either very positively, like me—didn't really care about these, you know—good
friends, nothing more. Then I remember one class, there was a guy—he was very belligerent
towards the other students. What he said verbally in class was very offensive, and he—it was
the way he was brought up. I mean I can look at him and well, this is the way you were
brought up and you're very close minded and let it go because he wasn't attacking me
personally, but there was a lot of people that were very disgusted by it and very verbal about
their disgust. Like I said, you have that on all campuses I think.
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MF: What about the reputation—this is changing gears quite a bit—what about the reputation that
Tate Street seems to have developed?
MC: [laughs] I—the reputation I always heard of Tate Street was very positive. I never—the only
thing you meet on Tate Street are a few drunken people walking to their cars or a street
person, and the street people usually weren't on Tate Street. They were usually on the streets
around Tate Street, so if you wandered far enough you'd run into them. Usually when they
were on Tate Street, I didn't have any problem with them. I love Tate Street. I was really into
going to the Hong Kong House for lunch. They had the best food. Every time I get back to
Greensboro I still go and eat there. I used to love to go to Friar's [Cellar] between classes and
get a cup of coffee and some baklava or whatever that pastry they'd have, and New York
Pizza was the hang out. And Night Shade always had a great dance. I loved Tate Street. I
didn't have—I never heard anything negative about it.
MF: Some of the atmosphere at Tate Street has changed though lately partly because of the
change in the drinking age. You know, some clubs have closed down and—
MC: One thing I did notice—I went back about a month ago I guess it was. And they had all these
new brick square buildings built on Tate Street. The one thing I liked about Tate Street was
because it was so unique. It was old. All the buildings were old and you could tell the street’s
been there a long time, and now they have all these new conformed brick buildings. There
was a little pool hall in one of them, salon, laundrymat and a couple of eating places, and it's
just looking so blah. I didn't like that. The new construction, I don't like.
And the drinking age—I turned nineteen just in time and then I had to wait a month.
The drinking age went into effect in October, and I turned nineteen in November so I had to
wait a month and then I was twenty-one when it went up again. But that was hard because I
had a lot of friends that were underage, and you were very limited on where you could go.
And a lot of bars didn't let underage people in. Some bars today will stamp you eighteen so
you won't drink, but I remember when the law first went into effect that didn't happen. That's
what should've happened. They should have allowed the people to continue to come in
because at least they'd get cover charge at the door and maybe sell a few sodas, if nothing
else. I mean I know those bars make their money off the beer sales, but I think that really
hurt Tate Street. I think that's hurt most night spots.
MF: What about how the change in the drinking age affects things on campus?
MC: Well, I remember, it was very—it was much more difficult to go to—to have parties. Most
of the parties were now pushed off of campus, and I remember that my first spring fling with
the kegs and all. I remember thinking, "Yeah, this is college, you know."—[laughs] sitting
out on the lawn, watching the live music, drinking a beer. This is great. This is what I lived
for all these years, and then I remember one spring fling and it was—the bands were great. I
think they had—the Graphic was there. They had some great tunes—great bands there.
MF: [unclear] was there too.
MC: And then there was no beer. People weren't really into it like they normally would. I mean,
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it's a sad thing to think that you have to have alcohol to have fun, but that really—I think that
hurt the campus social life. I mean, it was already hurt. It was already a suitcase campus as it
was and then you took alcohol away—people had to go off campus to find alcohol in
someone's house if they can't go to a bar, so I thought it really hurt.
MF: Did it—were the new alcohol laws really obeyed in the dorms?
MC: No, not at all. I mean, even my senior year with these young freshmen coming in who looked
like they should still have been in high school. They looked so young. They look younger
every year. [laughs]
MF: That's because you're getting older. [laughs]
MC: But they had more ways to get alcohol. No, it was not obeyed. It was just hidden. And
unfortunately the night life suffered—the bars—
MF: What about—what are some of the biggest changes that you remember seeing during the
time you were there?
MC: Well, the art building went up. One thing I have as an inside note—the recreation center, the
[unclear] building, there was a lot of construction being done. And I work in a high school
now, and they take field trips every year. They take the trainers up to see that place. I mean,
UNCG's reputation is growing. I think that was a great plus building that new facility. I was
on the traffic committee for one semester on student council, and we looked into how they
were going to take that road away that ran through campus, which they have now because I
tried to drive through it on campus the other day and I couldn't. I don't know if I like that. I
like having to walk on campus, but I remember they took my favorite parking spot away
because they took the parking lot underneath the cafeteria and I used to park there. When
they took that away, I was crushed because it was so close to my dorm. But I like what
they've done to the cafeterias.
I always used to love the food in the cafeterias. It was one of the good things about
UNCG. I was one of the few, I know. Probably looks like I'm crazy but that—and I loved the
bagel carts. That was new—that was new, I guess, my junior year. I loved that. I thought that
was a great idea. And then they had the pizza place. They built that little pizza park.
As for physical changes, they need a new pool. [laughs] Since I worked on campus
as a life guard, they need a new pool. They need a swim team, but this is only—I was very
discouraged that they had three soccer fields and they didn't have a rugby field or a new pool
or some other of the sports were not being pushed as much as soccer. That discouraged me,
even though soccer’s the sport that brings in the money.
MF: What do you see for the future of UNCG?
MC: I think it's growing. Being a high school teacher now, I'm shocked because when I was in
high school I think there were only four of us of my friends that I knew were going to
UNCG, but now there are a lot of students interested. When they find out I went there, they
are constantly quizzing me, asking questions. Like I just said, they have field trips there for
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the recreational department at UNCG. I think it's growing. I think it's going to continue to
grow. I think it's great. Everything that I've seen has been positive. I'm not sure I'm sold on
all the physical changes because I liked it the way it was when I was there. But I think it is
growing. I think it's going to continue to be a suitcase campus though because people are in
love with the city just as much as the campus. They’re going to continue to live off campus
and enjoy Greensboro, and I think that the social scene at UNCG is going to stay kind of nil
but the academics—I think that's growing too. I think they're going to catch up.
MF: Is there anything you can think of that you want to say that I may have forgotten to cover?
MC: I can't think of anything but you'll cut the tape off and something will hit me. [laughs] So,
well, I can't think of anything.
MF: All right. Well, thanks for your time.
MC: Thank you.
[End of Interview]