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Oral history interview with Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb, 1991 [text/print transcript]

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Oral history interview with Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb, 1991 [text/print transcript]

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1
UNCG CENTENNIAL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb
INTERVIEWER: Missy Foy
DATE: May 18, 1991
[Begin Side A]
MF: This is Missy Foy. It’s the 18th of May 1991 and I am in the home of Mrs. Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb. And if you could start with, like some general information, like where you're from and when you went to Woman's College [of The University of North Carolina, now The University of North Carolina at Greensboro], that kind of general stuff first.
MW: When I entered Woman's College, I lived in Elkin, North Carolina. My father was superintendent of schools.
MF: Oh, okay.
MW: And I went to UNCG with the intentions of staying one year, since I was sixteen when I entered college.
MF: Yes.
MW: And then transfer to [University of North] Carolina [at Chapel Hill] to be a pharmacy major after I was older. [laughs]
MF: Yes. [pause] And, let's see, you went to UNCG in '44? Yes, '44.
MW: Yes.
MF: I was trying to add it up.
MW: Yes.
MF: I knew you were Class of '48.
MW: Yes.
MF: Shows you, shows you I was a math major, right? Can't add that up. [laughs]
2
MW: That's pretty good. [laughs]
MF: No.
MW: You were quick without a calculator. [laughs]
MF: So what did you end up majoring in at WC [Woman's College]?
MW: I took freshman chemistry and just had a great teacher and was completely fascinated by chemistry. And so I changed my major and stayed at Woman's College for four years. I never did get to pharmacy school.
MF: Are you—
MW: But I don't regret it at all.
MF: That was what I was going to ask you—if you're glad you stayed, or wished you had not. So you lived in the dorm, I suppose.
MW: Yes, yes. I was in the dorm all four years.
MF: Which dorm or dorms did you live in?
MW: I lived in Hinshaw [Residence Hall] the first year, Jamison [Residence Hall] the second, and Winfield [Residence Hall], which was the new dorm on campus—
MF: I was just going to say, yes, that was the new one at the time, yes.
MW: The last two years.
MF: Oh, so you were in Winfield two years in a row. That was supposed to be really great.
MW: Oh, yes. [laughs]
MF: What was dorm life like? I know there were a lot of rules and regulations to follow.
MW: Oh, yes! We had more liberal rules than most colleges at that time.
MF: Yes.
MW: And of course, it was all—an all-girls school. Co-ed on weekends, nearly [laughs]—the influx of dates on weekends. But we had, I don't know how to describe it. There was—we were just all practically living together, you know.
MF: Yes.
3
MW: Had close ties with the people we lived on the hall with in particular.
MF: Yes.
MW: And our rules and regulations—I know during the week we had to be in by eleven. Weekends we could stay out until midnight.
MF: Oh, wow!
MW: And that was the most liberal timing of any school in this area. We could stay out later than most. If your grades went down, you were restricted during the week, if your average was below a C, I believe. I can't remember all of this.
MF: Sounds like—
MW: That's ancient history.
MF: Sounds like you remember a lot to me. The school wasn't—well, compared to today, it wasn't really that large in student population compared to UNCG today.
MW: No, I think, I believe—and I stand to be corrected—I believe we had about five hundred in our graduating class.
MF: So it was pretty easy to know just about everybody?
MW: Yes. Now you didn't get—the student population was between two and three thousand.
MF: Yes.
MW: The whole student body. You didn't get to know, you know, all the freshmen as you went on up, but I knew quite a few people and have run into them throughout life. In fact, because I think they were from every town in North Carolina, plus a lot of states.
MF: There were quite a few girls from up North going to school at WC, weren't there?
MW: Some. Not—there were more North Carolinians.
MF: Oh, yes.
MW: Because I did meet—you know, there weren't right many out-of-the-state students.
MF: Yes. How did some of the Northern girls seem to be—well, how well prepared academically were they?
MW: Probably a little better than we were. And the larger city schools seemed to be better prepared than the smaller towns at that time. 4
MF: Yes.
MW: There were offered a bigger variety of courses. A lot of them had already had twelve years. Most of them—a lot of them were a year older, really, than the people that finished in eleven years, you know.
MF: Yes, and why did—do you remember why some of them came to school in North Carolina?
MW: Most of them had some family ties in North Carolina.
MF: Yes, probably in Greensboro.
MW: And most of them adored the South.
MF: Oh, okay. [pause] Living in the dorm, you were real, well, connected to campus and everything. How did some of the town students seem? Did they seem to be a little bit disconnected from campus life?
MW: Yes.
MF: Did you know very many town students?
MW: Oh, I did because, during my sophomore year on, I was dating Greensboro boys—
MF: Yes.
MW: —including my husband. [chuckles] So I knew right many of them from him through my dates.
MF: Yes, and I know some town students became a little more active on campus than others. I guess there was what, a town student organization?
MW: Yes, they had an organization of their own.
MF: Yes, right.
MW: And a lounge, you know, they used between classes.
MF: And I guess they were also members of the societies.
MW: Yes, they were.
MF: What were the societies like? What was their purpose?
MW: Well, we selected marshals through that. [laughs] 5
MF: They didn't seem to be—yes—
MW: We didn't—it wasn't a central part of our life. We did select our, select our marshals, which was an honor, then, to be selected as one.
MF: Yes.
MW: Through that—
MF: One of the—
MW: Society. But you were assigned to a society.
MF: Yes, one of the things that I've picked up is that it seems like over the years the societies became less and less and less important.
MW: Well, they weren't that vital to college and campus life—
MF: Yes.
MW: —at that time.
MF: There were a lot of other, well, sort of traditions, though, that still were pretty strong on campus. There were class jackets—
MW: Oh, yes, we had class jackets. Every, you know, four years they rotated colors.
MF: Yes.
MW: Ours were supposed to be lavender. Lavender wasn't very popular at the time, so we had black blazers in '48. [laughs]
MF: [laughs]
MW: Good looking. Beautiful.
MF: I bet they were nice.
MW: They were very nice about letting us change colors.
MF: And there was a lot of importance attached to getting your jacket, wasn't there?
MW: Oh, yes, yes. Most everyone did have one.
MF: Were they wool at this time?
6
MW: Yes, wool, piped in white. Ours were piped in white and had WCUNC monogramed on the pocket.
MF: Yes. I bet they were nice.
MW: They were. They really were. We enjoyed them.
MF: Also, I guess, I'm trying to think of some other traditions. There was May Day.
MW: Yes, we had May Day, May Court. There was an amphitheater where the golf course is now, and a lake down at the—down in the—where the stream is, near Market Street?
MF: Yes.
MW: In fact, they taught boating on the little lake back then. If you wanted to take golf you had to go to Sedgefield to take golf.
MF: Oh, yes.
MW: It—and a lot of science majors didn't have time. I wanted to, but I couldn't get the time up because we were in lab so much.
MF: Yes.
MW: That—so, I ended up taking my golf lessons after I had three children from my former UNCG phys ed teacher, Ellen Griffin [Class of 1940]—
MF: Oh!
MW: —after she had the farm down at Randleman. A wonderful person. And just a super teacher.
MF: With some of the courses, I know that you had just mentioned that you were real busy with labs and stuff, and I remember Helen Stone [Class of 1948, Master of Education 1972] saying the same thing.
MW: Oh, yes.
MF: How was your, how did your schedule seem to run, being a chemistry major?
MW: Oh, we always had an eight o’ clock class. We never could schedule our classes so we could sleep late.
MF: Oh. [laughs]
MW: Which was—[laughs] which was one of my ambitions. I'm a night person. 7
MF: Yes.
MW: I like to sleep late.
MF: I do too.
MW: They always started at eight o'clock. And we would have lab, any science course that I took, was from eight till eleven every other day, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And the teacher could lecture as long as she wanted to, and then we went to lab, and on Friday we just had a lecture. We had two labs a week for every course.
MF: Yes.
MW: Plus, plus our hour-long lecture on the third day of the week. We had Saturday classes.
MF: That's what I was just going to ask you.
MW: Oh, yes. We usually took our required courses—At that time, UNCG was just giving a bachelor of arts in science, so you were required to have eighteen hours of history, or you know, some civic course.
MF: Yes.
MW: And I also got an education lab when I was there, which made it a heavy schedule senior year. All the labs.
MF: Did you get teaching certification too?
MW: Yes.
MF: Yes, I guess you did have a busy schedule doing all that. Wow!
MW: I really got my teaching certification to please my parents.
MF: Yes.
MW: They both had theirs, and right many teachers in the family. But I really—I enjoyed it but I did—really, if I could get a job in industry, I knew that's where I wanted to be.
MF: Yes.
MW: And really that was the only major at the time that you were paid equally to a man, was the entry into a chemistry lab.
MF: Going to an all-girls school, do you think that was beneficial, or do you think that hurt the quality of education 8
MW: Back at that time?
MF: At that time, yes.
MW: We were—UNCG was academically as strong as [North Carolina] State [College, Raleigh, North Carolina] and Carolina.
MF: Yes.
MW: We were very strong.
MF: I guess what I'm asking is, going to a school with just girls—
MW: Just females.
MF: —how did that, how did that affect, either good or bad, how did that affect your educational experience?
MW: I probably learned more. [laughs]
MF: Yes. Why do you think that was?
MW: I wasn't as distracted during the week. [laughs]
MF: Yes, that's usually what I hear. Something else I hear sometimes is—
MW: And at that age and going in as young. See, we went in about two years younger than people today.
MF: Yes.
MW: That was a time when the discipline did not hurt.
MF: Yes.
MW: You were out and needed the guidance, and the discipline going into college at sixteen—
MF: Right.
MW: At seventeen.
MF: I've also heard that some girls felt they were, it was easier for them to be competitive in the classroom, and in things like Student Government [Association] than it would have been if they were competing with males.
MW: Well— 9
MF: I've heard some say that's not true, but I've heard others say—
MW: Yes. I don't think that would have influenced me that much.
MF: Yes. Do you think that when, when WC became UNCG and it became co-ed, do you think that helped the school? That that was a good move or—because I've heard both. I've heard some who wished it had stayed a women's school and others who think it was a natural development.
MW: I really don't have much of an opinion on that. I think eventually, and since we have gotten leaders in Greensboro involved in the development of the college, that it will end up being a very strong—much stronger probably than it would.
MF: Right.
MW: But I think it's the involvement of people interested on the board in Greensboro.
MF: Yes.
MW: It will help it, I think, in the long run to—in fact, I think it's become much, the college is much more visible now than it used to be.
MF: Yes, sure.
MW: But, now, I went to school there in a different era. And it was as about as strong as any college in the state at that time.
MF: Yes, or in the nation as far as women's colleges, it was up there.
MW: It was up there as far as I'm concerned, except for the athletic aspect.
MF: Right.
MW: You know, to the other major universities. I think it's lost a little ground there—
MF: Yes.
MW: —since then. In fact, I really have a few mixed emotions with Carolina, and of course, my children are graduates of there so I—I have, I am a Carolina fan, but when they wanted to change their name this year, and when State insisted on changing their name—
MF: Oh yes.
MW: —when the University System started there. You know, when we had the sixteen—
MF: Campus. 10
MW: Campus, I think UNCG lost a lot of prestige with that move, but I think they are gaining it back.
MF: Yes.
MW: It will take time.
MF: Yes, I'm sure it will, but it's not an impossible struggle, but—
MW: No, it isn't.
MF: Also something I wanted to ask you about was some of the other faculty besides, like just in the chemistry department. But what were some of your other courses and some of the faculty at the school like?
MW: Well, we had a very strong chemistry department. All women teaching. [laughs]
MF: Oh!
MW: In fact, right now I am working with two other—when I went back to work, there were two UNCG graduates at Vick [Chemical Company] that had had the same person for their qualitative-quantitative course that I had. She was a very tough teacher, but we really developed, I think, one of the best lab techniques that I've seen come along, from her.
MF: Yes.
MW: And I don't believe I could have stayed home for twenty-two years and gone back to school, I mean gone back to work, and retained some of the good lab techniques that I did, had I not had such a strong teacher.
MF: Who was that?
MW: Dr. Guita Marble [chemistry professor], and Dr. [Florence] Schaeffer was head of the department.
MF: Yes.
MW: She was a very strong teacher also.
MF: Are there other faculty at WC that you remember standing out as really exceptional?
MW: Well, Miss Alice Ryan is the one that impressed me so in freshmen chemistry. That possibly was the reason I changed my major. [laughs] Dr. [Louise] Alexander had the most interesting political science courses I have ever heard and have ever taken. She made you feel as though you were there. You know, during all this—in the political science courses. 11
MF: Yes.
MW: She was fantastic.
MF: What kinds of things would she do? Because I know I've heard other people tell me the same thing.
MW: Oh, have you?
MF: Yes.
MW: Oh, she would practically—you would feel like if the Democrats had a convention, or the Republicans that you were there. She could describe it in such terms—
MF: Yes.
MW: —that you felt like you were right there attending. And it just was so down to earth, I guess you would say, that you, you just grasped so much history of the United States and the political process, that you didn't even need to study.
MF: Yes.
MW: You just remembered what she said.
MF: Yes. I've heard that she was very interesting teacher.
MW: Oh, fantastic. If she offered a course, and I could possibly work it in—in fact, I think I ended up with eighteen hours of—in the history department, and most of it was political science, because I took every course I could from her. I enjoyed it that much.
MF: That speaks, really—
MW: It was a pleasure. It really was a pleasure to take her courses.
MF: That speaks really well—
MW: Well of her. Oh, she was fantastic.
MF: Also, I guess something else I wanted to ask you about, is during the time that you were starting school, I mean, there was all the stuff with the War [World War II was a global conflict fought between 1939 and 1945] and everything. How did that seem to affect the campus?
MW: That was just my freshman year, really.
MF: Right. 12
MW: It was very different from the other years at UNCG. They would, you know, ask for volunteers to go to the camps, you know, go out to this camp that was in Greensboro.
MF: The ORD? [Editor's note: Overseas Replacement Depot was a military camp located in northeast Greensboro during World War II.]
MW: ORD. Yes, for tea dances, I guess is what you'd call them. And there were a lot of programs at Chapel Hill. A lot of those service men came up on weekends and were entertained on campus. You know, recalling all this makes me think we were really back in the dark ages. [laughs] I hadn't, I've worked with young people so long I had forgotten what the dark ages was.
MF: Right. Did a lot of the students seem real—well, real informed, or sort of just like being on campus was almost isolated from the news? I guess, there were probably a little, just a little—
MW: Isolated. Well, we were just—that was just the thing to do. Finish high school, go to college, have fun while you were there, but learn something in the meantime.
MF: Yes.
MW: Sort of thing. I don't think the world seemed as complicated to us at that point.
MF: Oh, yes, I think that's partly a—
MW: I think that people growing up now probably are missing out on a lot of childhood, because they seem to be pushed to grow up faster—
MF: Yes.
MW: —I guess, than we were.
MF: Sort of to move to something a little more present—
MW: Let's do. [chuckles]
MF: Okay. I don't know how aware you were of all the controversy that's going on with the Alumni Association and Chancellor [William] Moran and—
MW: Let's go back a little bit, and let me tell you something.
MF: Okay. All right.
MW: Dr. [James S.] Ferguson, Jim Ferguson—
MF: Yes. 13
MW: —was my neighbor for—he lived across the street—
MF: Oh, okay.
MW: —for, I can't tell you exactly how many years, but when he came here as Dean of the Graduate School.
MF: Yes.
MW: And they were very good friends. In fact, his children were the first teenagers I ever would leave my children with. They babysat for them. And he was a fantastic man to know. And we were very disappointed when he had to move to Spring Garden Street to be the chancellor of UNCG, but we kept in touch by phone from then on. And we have right many professors living in our neighborhood, or they're retiring now. But as—you know, we've been here for so long.
MF: Yes.
MW: We had quite a few professors in the neighborhood. We still do. So I kept in touch with the college, you know, through that period.
MF: Oh, yes.
MW: I don't know much about the Alumni Association.
MF: Yes.
MW: I don't know enough to comment.
MF: Okay.
MW: I know there was a big controversy. But I was never, I was so involved in my work I never had a chance to be that involved in the Alumni Association, other than contributing and years ago, making calls for them and things like that.
MF: Yes, yes, but never—
MW: So I really can't get on that subject.
MF: Okay. What do you see for the future of UNCG?
MW: And I don't know Dr. Moran at all, so.
MF: Oh, okay. Kind of a general question, what do you see for the future of UNCG?
MW: I see it growing each year, and especially with the board that it has now. If they keep 14
leaders, you know, on the board like they do now, I see it growing more into a bigger university.
MF: Yes. As far as reputation and student body, or just as far as in numbers?
MW: Oh, you know, the Business School now has a wonderful reputation.
MF: Yes.
MW: It has gotten very strong.
MF: Yes.
MW: And [pause] I really hadn't given it much thought except—
MF: Oh, sure.
MW: —but I know when it gets athletics, as they are going now, that it will become—sad to say for opponents of athletics. They are a great drawing card for students.
MF: Oh, yes, of course.
MW: It's unreal how many applicants Duke [University, Durham, North Carolina] has had since they have excelled in their basketball program.
MF: It promotes the name.
MW: It promotes the name and will get larger. And I don't know academically, I have worked with some students that have graduated recently, and they have been well prepared. That is the only way I've had to tell how much, how good the department is.
MF: Yes. Well, that's usually a pretty good judge.
MW: And I did have a, you know, I have a daughter that transferred from Carolina after she was married to finish in the Business School.
MF: Oh, okay.
MW: And that would be the only way I could judge, because I haven't been back to take courses, academically.
MF: Yes, yes.
MW: After—
MF: Is there anything you can think of that you want to be able to mention that I may not have 15
gotten to? If not, that's fine. I'm just giving you a chance in case there's something you wanted to make sure you were able to say that I didn't cover.
MW: Well, I don't really care about all of that being published. [laughs]
MF: Okay.
MW: All the ancient history. Although it was fun. We used to—oh, I will tell you one thing that was lighthearted. We used to have wooden laundry baskets. We had a laundry on campus.
MF: Yes.
MW: And they collected it in a wooden framed laundry basket. It was lined with canvas. And we would take those when it snowed and go down the amphitheater hill, and a lot of times we ended up in the lake, because we had no steering mechanism on them, [laughs] but we used them for sleds when it would snow. I do remember that.
MF: Yes.
MW: It was frowned upon a little bit, but we did it.
MF: Oh, well, yes, a lot of things are frowned upon, but students do them anyway.
MW: I do hate to see them take all of that open area over there.
MF: Yes.
MW: I thought the nine-hole golf course was marvelous. I have played that.
MF: Yes.
MW: And I just thought it was a great tool for teaching your short game in golf.
MF: Oh, sure.
MW: And I hate to see that having to go with all this expansion.
MF: Well, maybe they can find some more land and put another one in.
MW: I hope they can.
MF: Yes. Well, I thank you for your time.
MW: You are so welcome.
16
[End of Interview]

Page/Item Description

Title	Oral history interview with Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb, 1991 [text/print transcript]
Date	1991-05-18
Creator	Whitcomb, Mary Vance McAdams
Contributors	Foy, Missy
Subject headings	University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Place	Greensboro (N.C.)
Description	Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb (1927-2014) graduated in 1948 with a degree in chemistry from Woman’s College of the University of North Carolina, now The University of North Carolina at Greensboro. Whitcomb discusses campus rules and regulations, classes, and student social life. She recalls traditions such as class jackets, May Day, societies, and students using the large laundry baskets as sleds on the amphitheater hill when it snowed. Whitcomb also talks about chemistry professors Guita Marble and Alice Ryan, political science professor Louise Alexander, and the effects of World War II on the college.
Type	Text
Original format	Interviews
Original publisher	Greensboro, N.C. : The University of North Carolina at Greensboro. University Libraries
Contributing institution	Martha Blakeney Hodges Special Collections and University Archives, UNCG University Libraries
Rights statement	This item is believed to be in the public domain - http://libcdm1.uncg.edu/cdm/copyright
Object ID	OH003.171
Digital publisher	The University of North Carolina at Greensboro, University Libraries, PO Box 26170, Greensboro NC 27402-6170, 336.334.5304
Full Text	1 UNCG CENTENNIAL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT COLLECTION INTERVIEWEE: Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb INTERVIEWER: Missy Foy DATE: May 18, 1991 [Begin Side A] MF: This is Missy Foy. It’s the 18th of May 1991 and I am in the home of Mrs. Mary Vance McAdams Whitcomb. And if you could start with, like some general information, like where you're from and when you went to Woman's College [of The University of North Carolina, now The University of North Carolina at Greensboro], that kind of general stuff first. MW: When I entered Woman's College, I lived in Elkin, North Carolina. My father was superintendent of schools. MF: Oh, okay. MW: And I went to UNCG with the intentions of staying one year, since I was sixteen when I entered college. MF: Yes. MW: And then transfer to [University of North] Carolina [at Chapel Hill] to be a pharmacy major after I was older. [laughs] MF: Yes. [pause] And, let's see, you went to UNCG in '44? Yes, '44. MW: Yes. MF: I was trying to add it up. MW: Yes. MF: I knew you were Class of '48. MW: Yes. MF: Shows you, shows you I was a math major, right? Can't add that up. [laughs] 2 MW: That's pretty good. [laughs] MF: No. MW: You were quick without a calculator. [laughs] MF: So what did you end up majoring in at WC [Woman's College]? MW: I took freshman chemistry and just had a great teacher and was completely fascinated by chemistry. And so I changed my major and stayed at Woman's College for four years. I never did get to pharmacy school. MF: Are you— MW: But I don't regret it at all. MF: That was what I was going to ask you—if you're glad you stayed, or wished you had not. So you lived in the dorm, I suppose. MW: Yes, yes. I was in the dorm all four years. MF: Which dorm or dorms did you live in? MW: I lived in Hinshaw [Residence Hall] the first year, Jamison [Residence Hall] the second, and Winfield [Residence Hall], which was the new dorm on campus— MF: I was just going to say, yes, that was the new one at the time, yes. MW: The last two years. MF: Oh, so you were in Winfield two years in a row. That was supposed to be really great. MW: Oh, yes. [laughs] MF: What was dorm life like? I know there were a lot of rules and regulations to follow. MW: Oh, yes! We had more liberal rules than most colleges at that time. MF: Yes. MW: And of course, it was all—an all-girls school. Co-ed on weekends, nearly [laughs]—the influx of dates on weekends. But we had, I don't know how to describe it. There was—we were just all practically living together, you know. MF: Yes. 3 MW: Had close ties with the people we lived on the hall with in particular. MF: Yes. MW: And our rules and regulations—I know during the week we had to be in by eleven. Weekends we could stay out until midnight. MF: Oh, wow! MW: And that was the most liberal timing of any school in this area. We could stay out later than most. If your grades went down, you were restricted during the week, if your average was below a C, I believe. I can't remember all of this. MF: Sounds like— MW: That's ancient history. MF: Sounds like you remember a lot to me. The school wasn't—well, compared to today, it wasn't really that large in student population compared to UNCG today. MW: No, I think, I believe—and I stand to be corrected—I believe we had about five hundred in our graduating class. MF: So it was pretty easy to know just about everybody? MW: Yes. Now you didn't get—the student population was between two and three thousand. MF: Yes. MW: The whole student body. You didn't get to know, you know, all the freshmen as you went on up, but I knew quite a few people and have run into them throughout life. In fact, because I think they were from every town in North Carolina, plus a lot of states. MF: There were quite a few girls from up North going to school at WC, weren't there? MW: Some. Not—there were more North Carolinians. MF: Oh, yes. MW: Because I did meet—you know, there weren't right many out-of-the-state students. MF: Yes. How did some of the Northern girls seem to be—well, how well prepared academically were they? MW: Probably a little better than we were. And the larger city schools seemed to be better prepared than the smaller towns at that time. 4 MF: Yes. MW: There were offered a bigger variety of courses. A lot of them had already had twelve years. Most of them—a lot of them were a year older, really, than the people that finished in eleven years, you know. MF: Yes, and why did—do you remember why some of them came to school in North Carolina? MW: Most of them had some family ties in North Carolina. MF: Yes, probably in Greensboro. MW: And most of them adored the South. MF: Oh, okay. [pause] Living in the dorm, you were real, well, connected to campus and everything. How did some of the town students seem? Did they seem to be a little bit disconnected from campus life? MW: Yes. MF: Did you know very many town students? MW: Oh, I did because, during my sophomore year on, I was dating Greensboro boys— MF: Yes. MW: —including my husband. [chuckles] So I knew right many of them from him through my dates. MF: Yes, and I know some town students became a little more active on campus than others. I guess there was what, a town student organization? MW: Yes, they had an organization of their own. MF: Yes, right. MW: And a lounge, you know, they used between classes. MF: And I guess they were also members of the societies. MW: Yes, they were. MF: What were the societies like? What was their purpose? MW: Well, we selected marshals through that. [laughs] 5 MF: They didn't seem to be—yes— MW: We didn't—it wasn't a central part of our life. We did select our, select our marshals, which was an honor, then, to be selected as one. MF: Yes. MW: Through that— MF: One of the— MW: Society. But you were assigned to a society. MF: Yes, one of the things that I've picked up is that it seems like over the years the societies became less and less and less important. MW: Well, they weren't that vital to college and campus life— MF: Yes. MW: —at that time. MF: There were a lot of other, well, sort of traditions, though, that still were pretty strong on campus. There were class jackets— MW: Oh, yes, we had class jackets. Every, you know, four years they rotated colors. MF: Yes. MW: Ours were supposed to be lavender. Lavender wasn't very popular at the time, so we had black blazers in '48. [laughs] MF: [laughs] MW: Good looking. Beautiful. MF: I bet they were nice. MW: They were very nice about letting us change colors. MF: And there was a lot of importance attached to getting your jacket, wasn't there? MW: Oh, yes, yes. Most everyone did have one. MF: Were they wool at this time? 6 MW: Yes, wool, piped in white. Ours were piped in white and had WCUNC monogramed on the pocket. MF: Yes. I bet they were nice. MW: They were. They really were. We enjoyed them. MF: Also, I guess, I'm trying to think of some other traditions. There was May Day. MW: Yes, we had May Day, May Court. There was an amphitheater where the golf course is now, and a lake down at the—down in the—where the stream is, near Market Street? MF: Yes. MW: In fact, they taught boating on the little lake back then. If you wanted to take golf you had to go to Sedgefield to take golf. MF: Oh, yes. MW: It—and a lot of science majors didn't have time. I wanted to, but I couldn't get the time up because we were in lab so much. MF: Yes. MW: That—so, I ended up taking my golf lessons after I had three children from my former UNCG phys ed teacher, Ellen Griffin [Class of 1940]— MF: Oh! MW: —after she had the farm down at Randleman. A wonderful person. And just a super teacher. MF: With some of the courses, I know that you had just mentioned that you were real busy with labs and stuff, and I remember Helen Stone [Class of 1948, Master of Education 1972] saying the same thing. MW: Oh, yes. MF: How was your, how did your schedule seem to run, being a chemistry major? MW: Oh, we always had an eight o’ clock class. We never could schedule our classes so we could sleep late. MF: Oh. [laughs] MW: Which was—[laughs] which was one of my ambitions. I'm a night person. 7 MF: Yes. MW: I like to sleep late. MF: I do too. MW: They always started at eight o'clock. And we would have lab, any science course that I took, was from eight till eleven every other day, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And the teacher could lecture as long as she wanted to, and then we went to lab, and on Friday we just had a lecture. We had two labs a week for every course. MF: Yes. MW: Plus, plus our hour-long lecture on the third day of the week. We had Saturday classes. MF: That's what I was just going to ask you. MW: Oh, yes. We usually took our required courses—At that time, UNCG was just giving a bachelor of arts in science, so you were required to have eighteen hours of history, or you know, some civic course. MF: Yes. MW: And I also got an education lab when I was there, which made it a heavy schedule senior year. All the labs. MF: Did you get teaching certification too? MW: Yes. MF: Yes, I guess you did have a busy schedule doing all that. Wow! MW: I really got my teaching certification to please my parents. MF: Yes. MW: They both had theirs, and right many teachers in the family. But I really—I enjoyed it but I did—really, if I could get a job in industry, I knew that's where I wanted to be. MF: Yes. MW: And really that was the only major at the time that you were paid equally to a man, was the entry into a chemistry lab. MF: Going to an all-girls school, do you think that was beneficial, or do you think that hurt the quality of education 8 MW: Back at that time? MF: At that time, yes. MW: We were—UNCG was academically as strong as [North Carolina] State [College, Raleigh, North Carolina] and Carolina. MF: Yes. MW: We were very strong. MF: I guess what I'm asking is, going to a school with just girls— MW: Just females. MF: —how did that, how did that affect, either good or bad, how did that affect your educational experience? MW: I probably learned more. [laughs] MF: Yes. Why do you think that was? MW: I wasn't as distracted during the week. [laughs] MF: Yes, that's usually what I hear. Something else I hear sometimes is— MW: And at that age and going in as young. See, we went in about two years younger than people today. MF: Yes. MW: That was a time when the discipline did not hurt. MF: Yes. MW: You were out and needed the guidance, and the discipline going into college at sixteen— MF: Right. MW: At seventeen. MF: I've also heard that some girls felt they were, it was easier for them to be competitive in the classroom, and in things like Student Government [Association] than it would have been if they were competing with males. MW: Well— 9 MF: I've heard some say that's not true, but I've heard others say— MW: Yes. I don't think that would have influenced me that much. MF: Yes. Do you think that when, when WC became UNCG and it became co-ed, do you think that helped the school? That that was a good move or—because I've heard both. I've heard some who wished it had stayed a women's school and others who think it was a natural development. MW: I really don't have much of an opinion on that. I think eventually, and since we have gotten leaders in Greensboro involved in the development of the college, that it will end up being a very strong—much stronger probably than it would. MF: Right. MW: But I think it's the involvement of people interested on the board in Greensboro. MF: Yes. MW: It will help it, I think, in the long run to—in fact, I think it's become much, the college is much more visible now than it used to be. MF: Yes, sure. MW: But, now, I went to school there in a different era. And it was as about as strong as any college in the state at that time. MF: Yes, or in the nation as far as women's colleges, it was up there. MW: It was up there as far as I'm concerned, except for the athletic aspect. MF: Right. MW: You know, to the other major universities. I think it's lost a little ground there— MF: Yes. MW: —since then. In fact, I really have a few mixed emotions with Carolina, and of course, my children are graduates of there so I—I have, I am a Carolina fan, but when they wanted to change their name this year, and when State insisted on changing their name— MF: Oh yes. MW: —when the University System started there. You know, when we had the sixteen— MF: Campus. 10 MW: Campus, I think UNCG lost a lot of prestige with that move, but I think they are gaining it back. MF: Yes. MW: It will take time. MF: Yes, I'm sure it will, but it's not an impossible struggle, but— MW: No, it isn't. MF: Also something I wanted to ask you about was some of the other faculty besides, like just in the chemistry department. But what were some of your other courses and some of the faculty at the school like? MW: Well, we had a very strong chemistry department. All women teaching. [laughs] MF: Oh! MW: In fact, right now I am working with two other—when I went back to work, there were two UNCG graduates at Vick [Chemical Company] that had had the same person for their qualitative-quantitative course that I had. She was a very tough teacher, but we really developed, I think, one of the best lab techniques that I've seen come along, from her. MF: Yes. MW: And I don't believe I could have stayed home for twenty-two years and gone back to school, I mean gone back to work, and retained some of the good lab techniques that I did, had I not had such a strong teacher. MF: Who was that? MW: Dr. Guita Marble [chemistry professor], and Dr. [Florence] Schaeffer was head of the department. MF: Yes. MW: She was a very strong teacher also. MF: Are there other faculty at WC that you remember standing out as really exceptional? MW: Well, Miss Alice Ryan is the one that impressed me so in freshmen chemistry. That possibly was the reason I changed my major. [laughs] Dr. [Louise] Alexander had the most interesting political science courses I have ever heard and have ever taken. She made you feel as though you were there. You know, during all this—in the political science courses. 11 MF: Yes. MW: She was fantastic. MF: What kinds of things would she do? Because I know I've heard other people tell me the same thing. MW: Oh, have you? MF: Yes. MW: Oh, she would practically—you would feel like if the Democrats had a convention, or the Republicans that you were there. She could describe it in such terms— MF: Yes. MW: —that you felt like you were right there attending. And it just was so down to earth, I guess you would say, that you, you just grasped so much history of the United States and the political process, that you didn't even need to study. MF: Yes. MW: You just remembered what she said. MF: Yes. I've heard that she was very interesting teacher. MW: Oh, fantastic. If she offered a course, and I could possibly work it in—in fact, I think I ended up with eighteen hours of—in the history department, and most of it was political science, because I took every course I could from her. I enjoyed it that much. MF: That speaks, really— MW: It was a pleasure. It really was a pleasure to take her courses. MF: That speaks really well— MW: Well of her. Oh, she was fantastic. MF: Also, I guess something else I wanted to ask you about, is during the time that you were starting school, I mean, there was all the stuff with the War [World War II was a global conflict fought between 1939 and 1945] and everything. How did that seem to affect the campus? MW: That was just my freshman year, really. MF: Right. 12 MW: It was very different from the other years at UNCG. They would, you know, ask for volunteers to go to the camps, you know, go out to this camp that was in Greensboro. MF: The ORD? [Editor's note: Overseas Replacement Depot was a military camp located in northeast Greensboro during World War II.] MW: ORD. Yes, for tea dances, I guess is what you'd call them. And there were a lot of programs at Chapel Hill. A lot of those service men came up on weekends and were entertained on campus. You know, recalling all this makes me think we were really back in the dark ages. [laughs] I hadn't, I've worked with young people so long I had forgotten what the dark ages was. MF: Right. Did a lot of the students seem real—well, real informed, or sort of just like being on campus was almost isolated from the news? I guess, there were probably a little, just a little— MW: Isolated. Well, we were just—that was just the thing to do. Finish high school, go to college, have fun while you were there, but learn something in the meantime. MF: Yes. MW: Sort of thing. I don't think the world seemed as complicated to us at that point. MF: Oh, yes, I think that's partly a— MW: I think that people growing up now probably are missing out on a lot of childhood, because they seem to be pushed to grow up faster— MF: Yes. MW: —I guess, than we were. MF: Sort of to move to something a little more present— MW: Let's do. [chuckles] MF: Okay. I don't know how aware you were of all the controversy that's going on with the Alumni Association and Chancellor [William] Moran and— MW: Let's go back a little bit, and let me tell you something. MF: Okay. All right. MW: Dr. [James S.] Ferguson, Jim Ferguson— MF: Yes. 13 MW: —was my neighbor for—he lived across the street— MF: Oh, okay. MW: —for, I can't tell you exactly how many years, but when he came here as Dean of the Graduate School. MF: Yes. MW: And they were very good friends. In fact, his children were the first teenagers I ever would leave my children with. They babysat for them. And he was a fantastic man to know. And we were very disappointed when he had to move to Spring Garden Street to be the chancellor of UNCG, but we kept in touch by phone from then on. And we have right many professors living in our neighborhood, or they're retiring now. But as—you know, we've been here for so long. MF: Yes. MW: We had quite a few professors in the neighborhood. We still do. So I kept in touch with the college, you know, through that period. MF: Oh, yes. MW: I don't know much about the Alumni Association. MF: Yes. MW: I don't know enough to comment. MF: Okay. MW: I know there was a big controversy. But I was never, I was so involved in my work I never had a chance to be that involved in the Alumni Association, other than contributing and years ago, making calls for them and things like that. MF: Yes, yes, but never— MW: So I really can't get on that subject. MF: Okay. What do you see for the future of UNCG? MW: And I don't know Dr. Moran at all, so. MF: Oh, okay. Kind of a general question, what do you see for the future of UNCG? MW: I see it growing each year, and especially with the board that it has now. If they keep 14 leaders, you know, on the board like they do now, I see it growing more into a bigger university. MF: Yes. As far as reputation and student body, or just as far as in numbers? MW: Oh, you know, the Business School now has a wonderful reputation. MF: Yes. MW: It has gotten very strong. MF: Yes. MW: And [pause] I really hadn't given it much thought except— MF: Oh, sure. MW: —but I know when it gets athletics, as they are going now, that it will become—sad to say for opponents of athletics. They are a great drawing card for students. MF: Oh, yes, of course. MW: It's unreal how many applicants Duke [University, Durham, North Carolina] has had since they have excelled in their basketball program. MF: It promotes the name. MW: It promotes the name and will get larger. And I don't know academically, I have worked with some students that have graduated recently, and they have been well prepared. That is the only way I've had to tell how much, how good the department is. MF: Yes. Well, that's usually a pretty good judge. MW: And I did have a, you know, I have a daughter that transferred from Carolina after she was married to finish in the Business School. MF: Oh, okay. MW: And that would be the only way I could judge, because I haven't been back to take courses, academically. MF: Yes, yes. MW: After— MF: Is there anything you can think of that you want to be able to mention that I may not have 15 gotten to? If not, that's fine. I'm just giving you a chance in case there's something you wanted to make sure you were able to say that I didn't cover. MW: Well, I don't really care about all of that being published. [laughs] MF: Okay. MW: All the ancient history. Although it was fun. We used to—oh, I will tell you one thing that was lighthearted. We used to have wooden laundry baskets. We had a laundry on campus. MF: Yes. MW: And they collected it in a wooden framed laundry basket. It was lined with canvas. And we would take those when it snowed and go down the amphitheater hill, and a lot of times we ended up in the lake, because we had no steering mechanism on them, [laughs] but we used them for sleds when it would snow. I do remember that. MF: Yes. MW: It was frowned upon a little bit, but we did it. MF: Oh, well, yes, a lot of things are frowned upon, but students do them anyway. MW: I do hate to see them take all of that open area over there. MF: Yes. MW: I thought the nine-hole golf course was marvelous. I have played that. MF: Yes. MW: And I just thought it was a great tool for teaching your short game in golf. MF: Oh, sure. MW: And I hate to see that having to go with all this expansion. MF: Well, maybe they can find some more land and put another one in. MW: I hope they can. MF: Yes. Well, I thank you for your time. MW: You are so welcome. 16 [End of Interview]
OCLC number	946572143

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