1
UNCG CENTENNIAL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Hilda Weil Wallerstein
INTERVIEWER: Missy Foy
DATE: May 6, 1991
[Begin Side A]
MF: My name is Missy Foy. It's the 6th of May 1991 and I am here with Hilda Weil Wallerstein. I guess if you could start with some general information like where you were from and when you went to Woman's College, now and stuff like that. [Editor’s note: the name of the institution was North Carolina College for Women from 1919 to 1932, Woman’s College from 1932 to 1963, and is now The University of North Carolina at Greensboro (UNCG).]
HW: I was from Goldsboro [North Carolina]. My dad used to come up on Sundays and have breakfast with us.
MF: Oh, that's nice.
HW: He'd take a train up from Goldsboro; take a sleeper up and have breakfast with us on campus and see all the girls.
MF: And you started at Woman's College in, I guess, '22? 1922?
HW: [Nineteen] Twenty-two.
MF: And then graduated in '26, right?
HW: [Nineteen] Twenty-six, right.
MF: And you were telling me that you were in the first phys ed class?
HW: Yes.
MF: Who was running the program then?
HW: Coleman.
MF: Oh, I saw her picture.
2
HW: Mary Channing Coleman [head of the Department of Physical Education].
MF: Yes, I saw her picture. And so what was Woman's College like then?
HW: Oh, my lord. We had to be home and put out your lights at ten o'clock. We couldn't go out in the evening without having somebody check us in and check us out. You had to get permission to go out. We had a house mother called Miss Emma King. I was in Spencer [Residence Hall] for one year and then I moved over to Shaw [Residence Hall].
MF: She was the house mother for Spencer?
HW: What?
MF: Was she the house mother for Spencer or Shaw [Residence Hall]?
HW: She was house mother for Spencer. Miss King. Emma King.
MF: What was she like?
HW: Oh, she was awful strict.
MF: [laughs] I guess all of the house mothers were pretty strict.
HW: Oh, they were then.
MF: Yes. I think—didn't you have to at that time still have to wear gloves when you went downtown?
HW: I'm sorry?
MF: At that time, didn't you still have to wear gloves if you went downtown?
HW: No, I don't remember. I don't remember that.
MF: Oh, okay. Did they have the four societies?
HW: Yes, the sororities. They had the Adelphian [Society]—Adelphian, and—oh lord.
MF: Aletheian [Society], I think.
HW: Aletheian. And Adelphian, Aletheian and—
MF: Corinthian? [Editor’s note: the name was Cornelian Society]
HW: And what?
3
MF: Corinthian or something?
HW: No.
MF: Dikean [Society]?
HW: Dikean, they had.
MF: What were the societies like? I mean, what did they—?
HW: Oh, well, we could have boys, have dates with boys, but we couldn't dance with them. They wouldn't let us dance with boys.
MF: Why not?
HW: Well, because it wasn't stylish. It wasn't the thing to do. You get too close to the boy. [laughs]
MF: But would you have like some kind of parties or something with the societies and boys would be invited?
HW: Yes.
MF: Okay. And I guess—
HW: I didn't bring my glasses. That's all right. I don't need them.
MF: Yes.
HW: I can read without them.
MF: Oh, really?
HW: Yes.
MF: My husband can't. [laughs]
HW: He can't?
MF: No, he's always putting on his glasses to read things. No, I think he can but just—it strains his eyes.
HW: When did you finish?
MF: Well, I finished my undergraduate in '86 and then I'm just finishing graduate school.
4
HW: Oh, you're back at graduate school?
MF: Well, I'm finishing this month.
HW: Oh, good.
MF: Yes, so. So you were in the first phys ed [physical education] class. What was the program like? What did you do? I guess you had general college also.
HW: Oh, yes. We had all the sciences that were in the book. Every science that was ever published. [Editor's note: side conversation redacted.]
MF: So in addition to like the sciences and everything, what kind of courses did you take for phys ed?
HW: We took every science in the book. I think I gave my books out to—oh, who's out there now in the phys ed department?
MF: I'm not sure because I didn't have much to do with that department.
HW: Oh, gosh, my brain's gone. Betsy Umstead [Class of 1949, physical education professor].
MF: Yes, okay.
HW: Betsy has breakfast. We have a phys ed breakfast every year.
MF: Oh! With everybody getting together?
HW: Yes.
MF: Oh, that's pretty neat.
HW: Eight o'clock out at the gym. They're going to have one this year.
MF: With—around graduation weekend?
HW: Yes. Right.
MF: So what were some of the courses like?
HW: Oh, God, we cut up cats and dogs, cats and animals.
MF: Did they have a course at that time in the phys ed department called Body Mechanics or did that come later?
HW: Later. 5
MF: Oh, okay.
HW: I ought to find my phys ed books and show them to you if I've got any of them left. I've given them mostly out to Betsy, I think.
MF: With some of the rules they had and all in the dorm, what were some of the other rules that you had to follow?
HW: Well, we had to be in every night at nine-thirty or was it ten? And my friend Eleanor, Eleanor—do you know Eleanor Bennett [Class of 1926]?
MF: Bennett?
HW: Yes.
MF: Yes. She's in Durham, isn't she?
HW: No.
MF: Oh, Eleanor Vanneman Bennett or something?
HW: Right. She lives out at Friends Home [retirement community].
MF: Yes, I think I interviewed her. I'm pretty sure I did.
HW: I'll bet you did.
MF: Yes. Oh, I'm sure I did because I remember interviewing her now. Yes. Was she in the same class as you?
HW: We were in the same class and she lived in my dorm and she claims I used to come in at five minutes past ten and knock on her window and she'd let me in.
MF: [laughs] But is there no truth to that?
HW: What?
MF: Is that true?
HW: Yes, that's pretty true.
MF: [laughs] Did you ever get caught doing that?
HW: No.
MF: What would have happened if you did? 6
HW: What?
MF: What would have happened if you did?
HW: Well, they'd campus us [restricted to campus]. We couldn't go off. [pause] I think Dr. [Julius Isaac] Foust taught down in Goldsboro for a while before he took the job as president of UNC—of Woman's College. I can't remember that.
MF: He was there, though, when you were there, right?
HW: Yes.
MF: What was he like? Do you remember?
HW: Well, he was strict and—I can't remember all the things I ought to—
MF: When you started at Woman's College, I guess you were probably about sixteen, weren't you?
HW: Yes.
MF: Yes. Were there a lot of girls from like New Jersey and stuff there then? Because I know later, a lot of girls from up North would start coming down.
HW: No, there weren't a whole lot from the North at that particular time.
MF: Mostly girls from North Carolina?
HW: Right.
MF: Yes. And I suppose a lot of girls from the Greensboro area?
HW: Oh, yes. They lived on—they lived in their homes. They didn't live on campus, quite a number of them. I know Van lived at home. Eleanor lived at home.
MF: Yes. And the girls who like lived at home, were they—?
HW: Like what?
MF: The girls who lived at home, were they sort of kind of distant from campus? Not really connected with campus?
HW: Well, they mixed. [Editor's note: side conversation redacted.]
MF: Have you lived out here for a while in Abbotswood [retirement community]? 7
HW: I've been here two years.
MF: Oh. Do you like it out here?
HW: No.
MF: No? [laughs]
HW: But I have to. My daughter knocked me in the head. I lived at King's Arms Apartments and had my own apartment and now I can't sell it.
MF: Oh, no! So you've got that place and this place?
HW: I've got an agent trying to sell it, but she hasn't had any luck. Real estate's been awful.
MF: Oh, sure. So when you were at Woman's College, was—what was it like to go to woman's school?
HW: Well, you just took it for granted. There wasn't a place in the—you'd have dates and the boys would come out now and then and you'd go out to a movie with them and I went to—I went to temple often. Miss Etta [Rider] Spier [Class of 1895]. Did you ever hear of her?
MF: No.
HW: Etta was a teacher at Sunday school at the Jewish temple.
MF: Oh, okay.
HW: There were quite a few Jewish girls that had come down here. There was one gal I remember well from Goldsboro, Esther Leah Epstein [Class of 1926] and Annie—what was her name? Annie Mae Epstein [Class of 1926]. She came from Rocky Mount [North Carolina]. And the local people had us out for dinner on the weekends.
MF: Oh, people associated with the school, or?
HW: No, they were friends of the families that I knew here. Here in Greensboro.
MF: Oh, so they've been like friends of your family?
HW: Yes.
MF: Okay. The one dorm, Weil-Winfield [Residence Hall], is that associated with your family name?
HW: My grandmother [Mina Rosenthal Weil]. 8
MF: Oh, okay.
HW: She had given to the college quite a bit of money and [Joe] Rosenthal was her brother.
MF: Oh, okay. The Rosenthal Gym.
HW: Yes. That was built while I was in college. The Rosenthal Gym was built. He used to be on the Board of Trustees way back yonder. That's how they picked Rosenthal—named it Rosenthal Gym.
MF: I was just talking to somebody about Rosenthal Gym, so that's interesting to know where the name came from now. Because I didn't know that.
HW: Dr. [William E.] Moran [chancellor] didn't know about it. I had to tell somebody about that. Gosh, nobody thought the sun was going to come out today.
MF: Yes, but it did. Thank goodness, right? [laughs]
HW: Yes.
MF: I'm a sun person. I like the sun. What were some of the faculty like and the classes?
HW: Oh, I had to take math. I took math under Miss [Cornelia] Strong and I asked her please would she let me—I gave out of ink. I was taking a test and I gave out of ink and she said—I said to her, "Can I get some ink?" She said, "No, it belongs to the college." I started to say, "But I've been paying my dues." But she wouldn't let me get ink for the rest of my test. She was a character, Miss Strong. She was a strong devil. They've got a dorm [Strong Residence Hall] named for her.
MF: Oh, is that named after her?
HW: Yes. Strong. She was a math teacher.
MF: What about some of the other faculty? What were they like?
HW: Oh, God, you're making me go back.
MF: Yes.
HW: [pause] I had to take French. That was a mistake.
MF: Why was that?
HW: Well, I was no good in languages. I wasn't any good in English and I wasn't any good in French.
9
MF: Do you remember who you took French with?
HW: What?
MF: Do you remember who you took French under?
HW: No. I can go back in my alumni book, maybe, and find out. Look at it. Can't remember her name.
MF: Do you remember any of the faculty that you had for any of your science courses?
HW: Miss [Mary Macy] Petty [head of the Department of Chemistry].
MF: Oh, okay.
HW: I took chemistry under her.
MF: That's the—the chemistry building is named the Petty Building now. What was she like?
HW: Oh, she was very outgoing and considerate of all the class.
MF: Was she a good teacher?
HW: Yes, I thought she was. Of course, I can't tell you now whether they thought she was or not. [laughs]
MF: You still had Saturday classes at that time, too, didn't you?
HW: I think so. I can't remember unless I look back at my, you know, schedule.
MF: Yes. Did the faculty seem to be like good faculty? Good quality and all?
HW: Oh, yes. [pause] I guess the faculty wasn't—Miss [Gertrude] Mendenhall [head of the Department of Mathematics] taught me math, I think. No, not Mendenhall. Strong taught me math. Miss Spier was teaching at that time. Etta Spier.
MF: What did she teach?
HW: Oh, God. [pause] She taught education.
MF: Oh, okay.
HW: And she lived with Miss Mendenhall on Spring Garden [Street] before they built that new gym, the new—what do they call that building?
MF: On Spring Garden? The new gym there, or? 10
HW: No, not the new gym.
MF: On the other side of the street?
HW: Yes, across the highway where—the Alumni House was where Dr. Foust lived and when he up and died, she stayed there and lived in his house. And that's when they tore it down and built the Alumni House.
MF: Oh, okay.
HW: Where the [College] Bell is.
MF: Yes.
HW: Gosh, things change so, you forget in a hurry.
MF: Yes. Well, the campus has changed a whole bunch just in the last ten years.
HW: Oh, yes.
MF: But you've been pretty—
HW: I moved over here in 1975. I moved back to Greensboro in 1975. I've got to call Betsy and see what she's got up her sleeve.
MF: [chuckles] And then, did you have a lot to do with the Alumni Association?
HW: Yes, whenever they met in Richmond [Virginia], I would—I was living in Richmond at the time.
MF: Do you know a whole lot about what was going on just recently with the Alumni Association? The big controversy with Chancellor Moran?
HW: With what?
MF: With Chancellor Moran? The big controversy they were having.
HW: Yes. I've been watching that close, because he didn't want to let them run their own show, which I think is bad. Of course, Barbara Parrish [Class of 1948, executive secretary of the Alumni Association, director of alumni affairs] had a law unto herself.
MF: What do you mean?
HW: I mean, she did things her way. She didn't bother the—she'd put it before the committee, but she did a lot on her own, I think. Is she out of the hospital, do you know?
11
MF: She's in a—
HW: A nursing home?
MF: Well, not a nursing home, but like a rehabilitation center or something, because she still can't put any weight on her leg or anything like that. So it's going to be a while.
HW: Yes, I've been trying to get to see her and I'm bad.
MF: Well, Brenda [Meadows] Cooper [Class of 1965, executive secretary of the Alumni Association, director of alumni affairs] and a couple of people took her out last weekend, I think.
HW: Oh, yes?
MF: And took her to the hairdresser to get her hair done and stuff like that. They were supposed to take her out last weekend. I'm sure they did.
HW: Yes. I have to get out there and call Brenda.
MF: Yes. I can't remember where Barbara is, but Brenda knows. Brenda goes to see her just about every day. So—
HW: I haven't been very nice to Barbara.
MF: What do you mean?
HW: I haven't been to see her or sent her a card or anything.
MF: I don't think she's been much in the mood to see visitors lately, anyway, so—
HW: What?
MF: I don't think she's been much in the mood to have visitors lately, anyway.
HW: No, I don't think so.
MF: So—
HW: I haven't been out at the college lately. I used to go every week. I haven't been out there lately.
MF: What kinds of things would you go out for?
HW: What?
12
MF: I'm trying to get that bee to go away. [laughs] What kinds of things do you go out to the college for?
HW: Well, I was on the Alumni Committee and I went to all the alumni meetings going and coming and I got an honorary degree.
MF: Oh, really?
HW: Yes. I'll show you my—I'll take you down to my apartment.
MF: Okay. What was your honorary degree in?
HW: Having worked for the college over a period of years. It wasn't an honorary degree. What was it? I can't remember. [Editor's note: Mrs. Wallerstein received the Alumni Distinguished Service Award in 1988.]
MF: Some kind of award, though?
HW: Yes.
MF: Yes. Okay. So, do you know Chancellor Moran, then, from—
HW: Yes.
MF: What's he like? I've never met him. Well, actually, I've met him, but—
HW: I know. I know. He's very meticulous and he's very exacting kind of a person.
MF: What about all the building that he's been doing on campus? What do you think about that?
HW: All what?
MF: All the building that he's been having done on campus. What do you think about that?
HW: Oh, I think he's pushing too hard. [laughs]
MF: Yes, he's getting some people a little aggravated with him.
HW: Yes. [pause] She's lovely. I'm crazy about his wife.
MF: Oh, yes. I've heard people say that. I've heard people say she's very nice.
HW: She's very nice.
MF: When Woman's College changed to UNCG and became coeducational, do you think that 13
was a good move or do you think it should have stayed a woman's college?
HW: No, I think it had to happen. I think it was one of those growth things that had to happen.
MF: Yes.
HW: Don't you think so? What do you think?
MF: I'm not sure. I think it did seem kind of inevitable, but I think a lot of people that I've talked to feel like something was lost when it changed from a woman's college. And then, a lot of other people I've talked to think it was good. So, I don't know, because I didn't know it when it was a woman's college.
HW: Right. I think it was inevitable. I think it had to happen, being a state school. My father went to [University of North Carolina] Chapel Hill back in the dark ages, so he was a real college thinker and enjoyed visiting out on the campus.
MF: And he used to come up every weekend.
HW: Not every weekend.
MF: But a lot.
HW: He came up several times. We'd have breakfast Sunday morning with the girls. [Editor's note: side conversation redacted.] All these old people. Can't hardly walk. I was feeling stinko today. I went to bed this morning for two hours. I felt like hell. I was supposed to go to the doctor and get a check-up and I cancelled. So, I feel better.
MF: Oh, I'm glad you do. [laughs] Yes, you know just about everybody here, don't you? Everybody who comes by says, "Hi."
HW: No, I don't know them. I say hello to everybody. But I don't—I couldn't tell you their names. I think it's awful we don't wear name tags because I can't remember anybody's name. My memory's gone.
MF: That's not your memory. I can't remember names either.
HW: I know. I know what you're saying.
MF: I can remember a person's face, but then I can't put their name to it.
HW: Yes.
MF: Or I can remember the name, but I can't think of what the face is. Yes.
HW: Let's go down to my room. I can think of some more junk to tell you, maybe, down there. 14
MF: Okay.
[End of Interview]
UNCG University Archives
