Greensboro during World War II [Oral history interview with Kathernine Ravenel]

              GREENSBORO DURING WORLD WAR II
INTERVIEWEES: Katherine Ravenel
INTERVIEWER: Meg Breeden (Guilford College)
DATE: [1983]
[Begin Tape #1] 1
KR:
…opportunities but he never got around to doing it and he was working in New York as a gardener in one of the public gardens, I mean he was just, working for peanuts. And I said "Al, go to school and learn to be…" "No I have to work here." No, he was working as a handy man on an estate in Connecticut. And then he went into New York and he worked at odd-jobs, just doing whatever he could. I met him in New York in 1950, and I said "Al, why don't you get a regular, steady job?" He said, "Well, I would if I could get what I want." I said, "Well you could get such and such a job…" and he said, "I'm afraid to take a job like that, 'cause some other thing I really want to do might come along." I mean you couldn't argue with him. He was a talented person: talented on the piano, and he was talented with the pen you see he would draw little things on all…look at all these things on all the envelopes, look at it! ...and I started to say "Well why did you do it?" No I didn't, I said "Oh how wonderful." So I hurried around that day and went to the dime store and bought a bunch of little ten cent things and wrapped them all up separate and wrote little funny verses on them and worked myself to death and had Jane make a birthday cake. And we always, when we have a birthday, have a birthday cake and
1 This transcript is from the Alex Stoesen Papers, Mss.Coll.#133, at the Greensboro Historical Museum. It is based on a typed manuscript copy in the collection that was completed by Nicola (a Guilford College student, last name not known), and not by the interviewer, Meg Breeden. The original transcript was taken from two separate cassette tapes, which also exist in the collection. Since the original tapes are in poor condition, the decision was made not to generate a new transcript based on the original recording, but rather to use the original transcript prepared by Nicola. However, this Textiles, Teachers, and Troops version has been edited for spelling mistakes (mainly personal and place names), and mistakes resulting from unfamiliarity with Greensboro place names. No other corrections have been made in the original text.
then we cut the cake for dessert. And, of course, as I say (Bo) was just about four or five years old and Kit was a little girl, nine or something like that, twelve or thirteen, so we were sitting there at the dinner table and of course there were some other soldiers. For three years we never sat at the dinner table when there weren't from two to five soldiers. I never went to bed when there weren't from two to five soldiers sleeping there. For three years.
MB:
From 1932 to 45? Was that about the time?
KR:
About the time. From Pearl Harbor on. And, so anyway, we had dinner, then James, I rang for James to clear the table and he cleared the table. And then he brought in the birthday cake with the candles on it and they were lit, and we all sang "Happy Birthday." Well, Bo always sat right here on my right, so I could control him, and Al was sitting on my left and we were all talking and we all sang "Happy Birthday Dear Al," and James put the cake in front of Al. And so he sat there for a minute and I looked at Al and I said, "Blow out the candles!" and he blew them out and the tears were running down his face. And I said, "Al, what's the matter?" And he said, "All my life I've wanted a birthday cake, and this is the first one I've ever had." I tell you, I said a silent "Thank you God for making me get things together and do this for Al." And I said, "Well now you've had your cake, now take the candles off and cut it." and he said, "Do I have to?" And I said, "Of course you don't." Bo said, "But that's dessert!" and I gave him a big kick under the table and I said, "No it isn't," I kicked him as hard as I could. I said, "No it isn't, we're going to have ice cream tonight." And so I said, "James, take the cake out and put it in the pantry." So James carried the cake out and put it in the pantry. I was so scared Bo would say some more, and we had ice cream. We always had enough ice cream. Al took the cake to his room, so about a week later, he went home and he put the cake in a hat box and padded it with paper. And he was going on the day coach, and they were crowded in those days. If you got a seat you were lucky. And he put this cake in a hat box and covered it all up and padded it so it wouldn't get broken: candy still on it. He wanted to show his family. I wonder what it tasted like when he got to cut it about three weeks later?
MB:
Well, it probably didn't matter.
KR:
No, it didn't matter. He had his birthday and that was the main thing.
MB:
What day was it? Do you remember what it was?
KR:
The Birthday?...
MB:
Everything probably rolled into one. Well, did you find that it was hard for you to have time to yourself during all that?
KR:
Time to myself?!
MB:
Did you even think of it?
KR:
I tell you, I never slept more than three or four hours a night. Here was my schedule: I'd get up about 7:00 every morning and have an early breakfast. I'd fix myself and my husband breakfast.
MB:
So that was really the only time of the day that you had with him that was kind of quiet?
KR:
Oh, not kind of. So off he went and then my children would come down. Then James would come and he'd get their breakfast. I had several rules for the soldiers. One was that there was beer, that they could have any amount of it there was always in the refrigerator for them, that they were welcome to it, and Coca Colas and soft drinks, and in the evenings we had drinks. But if anyone got drunk, they were out, they could never come back. It was up to them to take care of that for them. They had nice girls. I got them nice girls and when the girls said no, they meant no. And if a single girl complained, he was out. And the third rule was, no boy was to come downstairs before 9:00 in the morning. They didn't mind that rule a bit. So I had from 7:00 'til 9:00 to get my household done. I would make my plans with James for the food and all that. Then the boys would come down and James would be getting their breakfast and I would run to market or go by the dry cleaners and do the few little errands that I had to do. Then I would come back and by that time the boys would be out in the park playing touch football or something and I would go down and join them maybe. Or if I had to go down to the USO to see about some dance or something I would go down there and do that and then I'd check back. Of course the kids were be in school. Bo must have been five because he was in kindergarten, no he wasn't, but he would go down and play with the soldiers. James would take care of him but he would be down there and they'd take good care of him of course. [ ] Then they'd come in and have lunch and Bo would be put together for his nap. And I'd put him to bed. And in the afternoon, if it was summer, I'd take the boys out to a pool to swim. Margaret Richardson would give in, out in the country. And she told me that any time I wanted to use her estate with the big swimming lake on it, I could use it and the bathhouse for my boys. So I'd take them out there and they could swim and lie around on the little piece of beach they had and…
MB:
Was this mainly on weekends?
KR:
Oh no, every day.
MB:
When they had leave, that's when they would be staying there?
KR:
Three day leave, five day leave, or they would just come up for the day. They might have the day off, they would come and spend the day and go back on the midnight bus.
MB:
To ORD.
KR:
No, I didn't take ORD boys. I took Bragg boys because they had a place to sleep. They'd come and spend the day and the evening, but I'd take them back home.
MB:
Oh, I see, so the ones that were staying the night were from Fort Bragg.
KR:
Or (McCall). Paratroopers from McCall and Bragg and once and a while I got a little Dutch boy. Couldn't speak very much English, we laughed about it, we got him a date, we got all the boys dates and took them out dancing one night we only took them out dancing on Saturday nights. We always had a table reserved for us. We were dancing, and in those days you danced close dancing. And you also, the proper thing to do was for everybody to dance with everybody. It was fun because you got to dance with good dancers and poor dancers and you got to talk to everybody. Anyway, I was sitting there and I said "Well, I'm going to the powder room, anyone want to go to the powder room?" and one or two of the girls got up, and Peter got up and I said, "Not you, Peter!" and he said, "Well what is this 'pooder room?'" and I said, "Well, one of the boys will tell you." He wanted to know what the pooder room was. He didn't know what it was, but he'd take a chance.
MB:
That's funny, well you had…
KR:
2,722 soldiers, or men in uniform and of every background and I never had an unpleasant experience. Not one.
MB:
The people who came from ORD mainly came up for meals or whatever.
KR:
No the ones from ORD, they were at ORD. Oh, they would come out and they'd go swimming and spend the day, play touch football, and I'd get them dates…
MB:
Right, but they weren’t the ones that spent the night.
KR:
No. No. Because they had beds here. I used to take them back. And you know you had to have a pass to get in and the MPs that stopped me. Well the boys had to walk as far from the gate to the barracks as they would've from my house to the camp. And I'd say, "Well I just want to take them in and leave them." And he'd say, "I'm sorry, you can't go." I said, "Look, I'm not going to spend the night. I'm old enough to be these boy's mother. And that's what I am and I just don't want them to walk. "Well you can't go." and I would raise so much fuss, "Well, I want to see your commanding officer." "Well Lady, I can't…" I said, "I don't want any argument, I want to see your commanding officer." So they'd get the (co-host marshall) and I'd tell him what I wanted and he'd say, "Well, go ahead this time." Then the next time same thing. Finally, one day he said, Mrs. Ravenel, could I come out to your house?" And I said "Sure! I'd be glad to have you." So he came to the house he was much older than the boys. I guess he must have been 30. He was probably my age, no he was probably about 40, but he was much older. And he came out and there was a crowd there and he saw the situation and he went back and he said, "Well let me ask you something. If I get you a pass, will you promise to stop raising hell with my MPs?" and I said "Sure, if they'll let me do what I want." So he got me a pass so I could take the boys in. But he wanted to be sure what was really going on. But I thought that was very [ ] that they took such great care of the boys.
MB:
Well was it hard financially, buying all that food? How did you make it doing all that? Did friends help or… "
KR:
No.
MB:
No friends helped you financially. Did the USO help you with any kind of money?
KR:
No.
MB:
So you all had to foot this whole bill by yourselves?
KR:
Well, you asked for it. Dot said, I mean one day I'm in the air and saying "Mother, why don't we get some stair carpeting?" I said, "I'll tell you what, we can get it tomorrow, but we can't have any more soldiers. But if you'd rather have the stair carpeting than you do the soldiers, go get it." And she said, "No, I think it's better…" I said, "All right, forget the stair carpeting." and I haven't had a complaint from a soldier about no stair carpeting. Well we just did without things. And then after the war and we stopped taking soldiers in, then we could fix up a little bit because we had that money. Well it was pretty hard at times because doctors weren't rich, but that was all contribution. And as I say, there are so many times I've been treated like Greta Garbo and the Virgin Mary and I liked it. I felt like if I had said, "Off with his head." I would have had it rolling around on the floor. And everything I said was brilliant, everything I did was marvelous. I was the best dancer, I was the best football player. I was like Bo, I expected them all to drop dead.
MB:
I can't understand, there wasn't anybody that gave you any kind of certificate, or…
KR:
Oh no, USO gave me a certificate and they gave me a little pin you know, for doing the dances. No special…
MB:
Do you think this happened with other people too, that people were expected to do these types of things to help the soldiers or to help the country?
KR:
No, I don't think so, I just think that everybody wanted to do their share and everybody did what they could. Or thought they did what they could. And you know, different personalities. Some people couldn't have done what I did. Some people didn't have the size house I have, I have a large one. Some people didn't have the health I have and some people didn't have a husband that wanted to do it. And if my husband hadn't wanted to do it, I couldn't have done it. Because it was awfully hard because by 6:00 I would bathe Bo. I made it a point never to miss bathing him and reading him a story or two because otherwise I'd have felt like I was neglecting him. And that was his time, for about an hour and a half I sat in his room with him and we were alone and that kind of thing and I put him to bed and that kind of thing. And Kit was young and I felt like I had to give her some time of her own and I'd do those things and I'd sit up until the boys went to bed --I'd always get everybody to bed. Then I'd sit down and write their mothers or I'd write the boys that were overseas. I'd write the boys that were overseas every week.
MB:
You wrote them every week?
KR:
I'd write them every week. That's the reason I hate to write letters now I think. MB:
Because you wrote so many then that you just can't face it?
KR:
Yeah, I can't. My daughter lives in Switzerland and I phone her because I just can't write her.
MB:
That's Kit that lives in Switzerland?
KR:
I would write, so I wouldn't get to bed until 3:00 or 4:00 and my husband, of course would had been in bed long since. And I would sleep until 7:00 and then get up and go. And I did that for three years. I don't know how I did it because now I sleep nine and ten hours and wonder why I can't sleep eleven.
MB:
I wanted to go back to the question about how you saw women's role in this whole activity in the war in Greensboro.
KR:
Well, they did so much. They did what they could. Some were like me who were untrained and dumb, they just did what they could. They were grey ladies at the camp, they worked at the USOs, they went down to the station and gave out coffee as the trains came through. Now those don't sound like anything much. They weren't anything much, but all those little things added up and made the boys feel good. And we were the only city in the US that had a camp inside its city limits. And everybody will tell you they never had anything unpleasant happen. We never had any burglaries, we never had any rapes. We never locked our doors, because I've always said, and to me this proves it: treat someone like a gentleman and he'll be a gentleman. And if you can show love for someone and trust them, it'll be an awful hardened criminal that will fail you. And I think these boys coming in from the North, South, East or West; the Southerners understood us better, but the other boys realized that these people were doing these things, they were doing it from kindness, from affection, from gratitude to them who were going to go fight. And of course they responded, and we didn't have any troubles, well, little troubles.
MB:
Were you at all familiar, I know that there was segregation at that time,
KR:
Oh yes.
MB:
…the black USO was built at a little later period than the white USO…
KR:
Yes, I don't know a thing about that.
MB:
I was just wondering because I have read some things about the black USO and talked to some people about that. Because there a lot less amounts of black soldiers
here during that time, but I didn't know whether you might have known any…
KR:
No, I didn't run into any, they never came to my house. I would have taken them in if they had come, but they never came, and I'm glad that they didn't. never saw any. But they never came.
MB:
Because of the segregation.
KR:
I guess. But my goons were overseas and Lee was the first one that was wounded home. And the phone rang one time and it was Lee and I said, "Where are you?" and he said, "I'm in the hospital in Charleston." That's where they were always sent when that ship landed and they were all sent to that hospital. Until they went to the hospital nearest their homes that took care of that type of wounds. And I knew it was his leg, I didn't know if he had lost it or not… (end of tape one)
…and with them, you see, in college. I said, "You're old enough to help me out now. Come on, get yourself ready, and we went down. And there wasn't a place to stay, not a cubbyhole. Sam said, "Sis, I don't mind you going, but where are you going to stay?" and I said, "I don't know, but the Lord will provide." and so I went down and I called a friend of mine in Charleston, because my husband is from Charleston. She said, "Come stay here." and I said, "No, I'm going to stay in a hotel."[ ] She practically owned the hotel. It was a big stock(holder), and they save out furniture from the stock( ). Well we went to the hospital and the MP stopped us and he said, "Are you blood relation?" Well then right away I knew you had to be blood relation and I said, "I'm his aunt and this is his cousin." and he said, "All right." and he told us where to go and we went and [ ] and he was walking on crutches of course.
MB:
Did he lose his leg?
KR:
No. No, he has a stiff leg, but he didn't lose it. And he was, of course happy that we'd come to see him. He had a friend with him who had lost an arm and he has a stump and it was bandaged. He introduced us of course. And I said, "Lee, can you get out for supper?" And he said, "I can get a pass till midnight." and I said, "Fine, get one." and he said, "But you have to be blood relation." and I said, "Yeah, I know." And I told him about the MP. And he said, "Good, I should have warned you." and he said, "But I hate to leave my buddy here because he's so depressed." and I said, "Well, we'll get him a pass too." Well, about that time the doctor came and he introduced me and I said to the doctor, "Could I get a pass for my nephews? I want to take them out to dinner tonight." And he said, "Well, I know Nado is your nephew, but do you mean to stand there and tell me this boy is your nephew too?" And I said, "I certainly do, because in my heart he is." And that doctor said, "That's good enough for me." And he wrote out a pass for him. So you find people like that if you don't lie to them. And so we went out, we took these two boys. It was the first time they had been in the United States in two years.
MB:
So this was '44?
KR:
This was the first time they'd seen women; the first time they'd had anything to drink and everything else. And we went to the hotel room. Ann went on up with the boys and I told the manager about these boys. I said, "Now, I've got these boys and they're going to make some noise I'm sure, but I don't want any complaints." And he said, "You take them up there, and I'm going to station someone outside your door to help you when you need it." So we went in and had a lot of drinks and they got as drunk as they could get and they were carrying on, and that was fine. And I said, "Come on, let's go to a night club." They had one that had a floorshow. So we went out and walked down the ( ) and there were people standing there waiting to get on the elevator. And there was a colonel standing there with his date or his wife or something. And these two boys, and they were so tight, they were so tight. Ann and I were trying to control them, and this colonel was just about hysterical. He knew what was going on but anyway, we got in the elevator, we finally got them to the nightclub. We sat down and we ordered drinks and they came. Then I got up and went over and got the manager and I told him that these boys had just come back and everything. And I said, "Now, if they get a little rowdy please just come and control them. Don't throw them in jail or anything. I'll take them back to camp. We have to be back by midnight anyway, so we'll leave here by 11:30. You can put up with us from 10:00 to 11:30 I think." And he said, "Don't you worry." So we sat down again, and they wouldn't eat any dinner. They were drinking their dinner. Ann and I had a couple of sandwiches. Then the floorshow began. Those girls gave those boys the works. The manager had told them, and they were returning heroes. And they really did give it to them. And oh, they had such fun! It was so much fun. Finally at midnight --I couldn't get them out--finally at midnight the show was over and I persuaded them. I said, "Come on, please let's go get in the car, we've got to go back." Oh no, they were going to stay and see the next show. I said, "There is no next show." And I went and got the manager and said, "Please help me." And he laughed and he came over and he said, "This is the last show!" He convinced them that it was the last show. So they went out and got in the car. We got in the car and we got back to camp. These passes had to be back at midnight, and by now it's almost 1:00. They pulled out the pass and the MP said, "Go ahead." And Lee says, "Don't you want to see when we were supposed to be in?" I said, "Shhh." He was wanting to fight then. He was in a fighting mood you know. The MP said, "No, I don't care when you were supposed to be in." He couldn't have cared less. Lee said, "Well I was supposed to be in at 12:00 and it's 1:00 now." And the MP said, "Naughty boy." We went on and took him to the barracks. And the medics came out and I said, "What am I going to do with these two? I can't get them out of the car!" and he laughed and he said, "Oh, that's the way they always come back after they've been out for the first time. Don't you worry, we'll get them out." So he got them out and that was the last thing I saw of them. So the next morning we went back and they were leaving that afternoon for the main. We stayed there all morning with them and oh, the things
we saw were just awful looking.
MB:
In the hospital.
KR:
Ann said she would never, never, never as long as she lived, complain. And she never did. Two boys were playing Ping-Pong. One was playing on one leg and the other boy was hopping. And the one boy that had lost a leg was using one arm because the other boy had lost an arm. And they were having the best time and not asking for sympathy or anything. And it was so cute, when we got to the hospital we met the doctor coming out of the ward and he said, "Boy, when you take those boys out you really take them out don't you!" I said, "Well…" Oh, I did ask him before we left, I said, "Will it hurt these boys if they have something to drink?" and he said, "No they're doing good." He said, "I didn't mean for them to drink Charleston dry!" I laughed, and I said, "I couldn't stop them. I got them started and I couldn't stop them." He laughed and we went on in and when we did there were a lot of boys lying there in bed of course. And they all were listening, and I said, "All right Ann, let's go to it. You go down one side and kiss each one, and I'll go down the other." So she went down one side kissing them and I went down the other until we got down to the end of the ambulatory room, or in the sun parlour. Because that's the way you did things in those days because we were trying to build up morale for the boys. And let them know how much we appreciated what they did. And in Greensboro, everybody did do that, and as I say, that's why we never had any trouble.
MB:
Because everybody was so willing to help.
KR:
Yeah, everybody was so fine. Every boy was so fine and everybody let him know they thought he was so fine and they were so grateful to him, what could you do but be nice if everybody is putting you up on a pedestal. You hate to step down and say "Well I'm a mean son of a gun." It really was an experience.
MB:
And so after that you really missed all the soldiers.
KR:
Well, after they left, you know the war was over and I never saw any of them. I had given up all my friends. I mean I never played cards, I never played golf…
MB:
Well, you didn't have time for it.
KR:
I didn't. And so I didn't know what to do. Somehow or other I couldn't go back to golf and playing cards and one day I was wandering around and I went into Sam's office for some reason.
MB:
Was his office downtown?
KR:
It was right here, across from Cone Hospital. Well, in those days, it was down next to the USO. It couldn't have been more convenient. Well, no it wasn't, it had moved out here then,
because I remember going in the ( ). And the receptionist said, "Mrs. Ravenel, you see that pretty little dark haired girl?" and I said uh huh. She said, "Well, she's one of the hockey player's wives. Well, I'd never seen a hockey game in my life. I knew there was a hockey team here [ ] and she said, "I wish you would talk to her.'' and I went over and introduced myself. We chatted and she was very attractive and nice and I said, "Well, what can I do to make it more pleasant for you in Greensboro?" and she said, "Come see me because I don't know anybody but hockey player's wives and I'm sick of them." Well she lived about two blocks from me so I said I'd go. And then my husband came home that night and he said that a hockey player had been referred to him, his child (he was a pediatrician). He said this hockey player's doctor had referred him to him. His child had a heart condition, David. And he said, "Sis, I want you to go out and see the mother because I think you can mean something to her. She has another little boy, a ( ) and this new baby that had this heart condition. And he said, "I think you can really mean something to her." So I did, and I became very fond of Ellen, and Ellen, I think became fond of me. I went with them to Duke when they took the kid and that kind of thing. Well Butch was the captain of the hockey team and he said something about it, and I said I had never seen a hockey team. Well, he gave me tickets and said, "You've got to come." Well, Sam and I went, Sam hated it. You see, they didn't wear helmets in those days. He said, "I'm not going to see boys go out there and take a chance on getting mutilated or lose their minds --I mean get hit on the head."
MB:
Where did they play?
KR:
Out at the Coliseum. He said, "I'm not going to go until they wear helmets." But I was fascinated. You know, I'm blood thirsty anyway. So I got a friend and we got season tickets, and I said, "Where shall I get the tickets?" Well, the wives all sat in a row and so I got my season tickets in front of the wives on the first row. And they taught me hockey because they know it so well. But before that I went back to call on this other girl and she said that there were only about six wives. And she said that they were all like her, sick wives. So I went and called on all of them and one of them had twin babies and one had (three of them) and a crib and little things like that and they all came. Oh, I had a party for them, for the wives. And they brought their babies, and I had some townspeople, townsmen and I said, "Now this means that you have to be nice to them, at least go see them once." And they came and then they brought their husbands to see me, so I met all the husbands. All the married ones. Then I really wanted to see them play hockey and then when I got in with Ellen, well they all started calling me "Aunt Kitty" because Ellen called me Aunt Kitty. Sam was the hockey player's doctor, for the children because when Butch was referred to him, of course Ellen told them, "Oh, if you child gets sick, go to Dr. Sam Ravenel, he's the best." So I called him the Hockey Player's Doctor. And after every game they would have a get together and most of the players would go. The wives would take turns having them. And they would supply coffee and everybody who came would bring their own beer. The hockey players would drink a lot of beer. And one would bring hamburger rolls and two or three would bring hamburger meat and they would have hamburgers and potato chips and maybe the hostess would make potato salad. They would be hungry after the game. And they would always include me in this little get-together. So I would call Sam and he would meet me and we would go to these get togethers. Well I became the hockey player's mother and I never missed a game. And all of a sudden here I was just swarming with hockey players. And I was used to it. I just felt like I had my soldiers back. And then that was in '61. I had a nasty heart attack and a ( ) and I was in the hospital right long. And my doctor said "You can't go to any more hockey games, they are too exciting." I said, "That's just tough." So the day I got out of the hospital, there was a hockey game that night. This funeral parlor up here on the corner of Elm and…It was Forbis and Murray. Forbis and Dick are out here now across the street. Mr. Murray who was a hockey fan, sent an ambulance for me, and I went to the hockey game in an ambulance right up to the door. And went into my seat. And you know, I sat there, and when they come out, the boys all come out. First the other team comes on the ice and everybody boos and they skate around. Then our team comes out and everybody cheers and they skate around. Well our team didn't come and didn't come it seemed to me, but finally Butch came and ( ) came with a bunch of roses in his arms and skated around with all the boys behind him to my seat and jumped over the fence and handed me the roses. I tell you I thought I was Queen Bee. So then I couldn't miss any hockey games. Oh, I saw all the hockey games for years but after it changed like everything else and I got disgusted with it and stopped. Well they don't have one now, but I stopped about two years before they did. But I did, and when I got through with them, I started back playing cards. I was an old lady then. I tried to act like one.
MB:
Well, I don't think you do.
KR:
Well, I do. The other day I went to see a friend and she said something and I said, "Don't you start bossing me, Ann bosses me all the time." and she said, "What is she bossing you about?" and I said, "She just won't let me go to market. She says it's ridiculous for me to go to the market. She can do my marketing." and I don't mind going to market, I want to go to market, and she doesn't want me to 'cause she says for me to save my strength for things that are fun. And I said, "If you can tell me what an 81 year old woman can do that's fun, I'll save my strength for it. And she thought about it and she said, "Well, you can play cards." And I said, "Surely, I can play cards, but my friends are dying so that I can't get up but one game a week. Haven't got enough friends left!" And she said, "Well…" I said, "I do jigsaw puzzles, I knit all the time, I read, what can I do that's fun?" She said "I know, go to a singles bar." I said, "Oh, you've made my day!" I says, "I'm going home and I'm going to call Ann, my daughter that lives here. say, "Ann, will you go to market for me tomorrow to save my strength to have some fun. I'm going to a singles bar tonight."
MB:
What did she say?
KR:
She just howled, I said, "I could make money, because if I could dress up and go to a singles bar after about half an hour, the manager would come over and say, 'Lady, this is a singles bar' and I would say, 'I know it is, and I'm going to stay here until you pay me $100.00 to go home.'" And I said, "He'd pay me quick." So I could make $700.00 a week. Can't you see me in a singles bar?
[End of Tape 1]
[Begin Tape 2]
KR:
And then they put pennies on the ceiling and I used to have a drawer 6 months and I'd have to take the money off the ceiling to the pub and I did. Thirty-two showed up for it and I had $32.00 and some cents. I didn't make any money. It just came out in the paper.
MB:
Okay. I'm going to write these dates down so I can look them up in the paper too.
KR:
You can have these if you want them.
MB:
Well I can look at them and bring them back…
KR:
I don't want them. I'm throwing everything away. This is an English boy I had during the war. He came on His Majesty's ship. they went into Norfolk for repairs and I took him to New York, he'd never been to the New York area.
MB:
So y'all travelled a little bit.
KR:
Just to New York. That's my husband.
MB:
Is that on the Empire?
KR:
Uh huh, and that's ( ). My husband was a bit of a monkey too. And this little boy named Randy and I never kept track of him. And see I'd write each boy exactly what I thought about him in the book and I'd keep a few of his letters so they would see the kind of person he was….. that was all there was, he had his brain on ( ) but he brought us our beloved Bud, and I loved Bud. But I sent him this thing -- he was the only problem child I ever had. I wonder if those stamps will be any good? All of these boys, I'm not in touch with -- I don't know where they are and I don't know where to send them these sentiments. So I'm just going to have to tear them up and dispose of them.
MB:
Is there anyone in your family that would want to keep them?
KR:
No. My daughters remember them, but vaguely, not well, and my son was just a little boy. In fact, he said that they did him the biggest disfavor he ever heard of because the soldiers, when they would come these great big old characters would kneel down and fight him. And he'd hit them, he was about four years old, and he would hit them and they'd fall over backwards. And he said the first year he went to school he hit a boy and the boy hit him back. He said he was never so chocked in his life. He was used to hitting these men and having them fall over.
MB:
And these are the ones you've kept in touch with?
KR:
No. Some of them I didn't.
MB:
Oh, this is a mixture in this book.
KR:
I haven't gotten to throwing these away I don't think. Now who is this? Oh it says "September 1944. Guilford Battleground in ( ) area. Boys from the North, tired, dirty, lonely. 106 boys. Boys cleaned, bathed, ate, danced with the girls. Came at our SOS. One Sunday 17 unexpected GIs spent the day and evening. Returning from church we found 16 young gentlemen. In the park sat 1 lone soldier. Approaching him and inviting him to join us he replied he didn't think he should as he was a Jew. Upon assurance that religion was our only difference and that it would not be discussed, he came. The week following, note was received." And this was really the reason I did it because I got this letter.
Dear Dr. and Mrs. Ravenel,
I don't want to be goofy or sentimental, but I can't help writing to tell you how much I enjoyed being your guest last Sunday. There's no way I know of describing just how I felt about it except to say I felt warm all over inside. Inside the way you do when you're home. I'm ever so grateful. If we ever get into any real fighting I'll have a pretty good idea of what I'm fighting for.
Most Sincerely,
Staff Sergeant Sidney Corter
And this was before the war.
MB:
Was he in the first group?
KR:
He didn't stay there. I didn't have boys staying there then. There were no boys here. They were just bivouacking, they came from the North for (relievers) and they were out bivouacking at the Battleground.
MB:
How did they get down to Fisher Park?
KR:
They wandered around Greensboro.
MB:
That was a long walk!
KR:
Well, they didn't care. You could bum a ride in those days. They'd go in town and walk around. And my husband was out and saw two soldiers walking around, not in Fisher Park, but he had been to make a call, he was a physician and he stopped and he said, "What are you boys doing?" And they said, "We're just looking around. We don't know anyone, we're just looking for something to do." and he said, "Well, come on home. My wife I know would love to have you and we can stir up some girls and give you a good time." So he brought these two boys home named
Jack Melville and Joe Arthur from Philadelphia and they came and I called two daughters of two of the neighbors I knew and they came and danced and had fun. And about 12:00 the Dr and I drove the girls home and the boys, because we didn't know anything about these kids, and even though we were sure they were all right, we didn't take any chances, we were responsible for the girls. So I told the boys, I said if you'd like to come tomorrow, come in and spend the day, and they said "Oh yes." and I said bring a friend if you want.
MB:
And this was during the weekend?
KR:
Yes, when the soldiers were down here. I said, "Come in and spend the day and bring some friends." I went to church, but before I went these two boys appeared and they'd each brought a friend. So there were four of them. I asked them if they wanted to go and they didn't want to so I went on and left them. And when I came back there were 17 boys in my living room! And I think I had a slight heart attack because I couldn't feed -- them I hadn't prepared for 17 people! And I went out on the porch, and that's when I saw this boy sitting in the park. So I went down and said, "You look awfully lonely, come on up and join us." And that's when he said that.
MB:
that. That he was Jewish and that he felt self-conscious about
KR:
Mmm. So he came on up and as I say, he wrote that letter afterwards. And my husband when he came home I said, "Sam, what am I going to do? I've got 20 boys in that sitting room and I've got enough for 5 or 6." Well I had enough for more because I had enough for my family -- I had enough for 4 guests and I had 2 girls and Bos was 3, -- 5 of us, so I had enough for 9 people and I might have been able to spread it for 10, but that's all I had, so I said, "What am I going to do?" and he said, "Well, we're just going to have to do the best we can. So he got hold of one boy and gave him some money and he said, "Here are the keys to my car, take my daughter, she'll tell you where to go, and buy all the cold cuts they've got in the store." And then he gave him money and the keys to my car, and my sister was staying with us at that time and she went with them. And he said, "Buy all the milk and bread." Well fortunately I'd had a cake made, it was a right big one, and I figured I could cut it thin. Anyway, they stayed, and they had a grand time. They fixed their own sandwiches. And I got on the phone and got I guess a dozen girls and got them around there and they rolled up the rug and they danced and oh, they had such fun. And when supper time came, they didn't make a move to go and I said, "Boys, we haven't got any food." and they said, "We're going out again and buying more." And I said, "Oh, well, let's go to a restaurant." Nooo, they weren't going to take the chance of not getting back in. So they stayed and that night we took them home in relays you know, we'd fill up one car. We took the girls home first and then we'd fill up one car. Dr. would fill up his car and I'd fill up my car and we'd take them in.
MB:
That was before the gas rationing?
KR:
That was before Pearl Harbor.
"Many things happened that Sunday. Towels gave out, Ann, at 13 years, (she's my oldest daughter) gave 16 pairs of socks to freshly scrubbed boys. Food was gathered for 17 guests, a GI was picked up at random, was sent with father's car and money for cold cuts. Hours passed before his return as crowded conditions delayed them. When our fears at the long wait were confessed he said, "Well, after all, I did have your daughter, your car, and your money, but you shouldn't have worried, for I was in your husband's socks." And never since then have I worried. Two thousand seven hundred and twenty-two boys. Two thousand seven hundred and twenty-two gentlemen. Never an unpleasant experience."
--And I picked them up at random! I mean I had every type. I had boys that went to Oxford, I had boys that went to Private schools in the North, I had boys from the (brock petal??) I had one convict. I had a boy once that came, oh he stayed with us many times, he even stayed on passes. He'd get 3 day passes. His name was Samanski -- came from New York. And you know in those days things were rationed. Oh, it was hard to get sugar and everything. My friends said "If you can take in those boys, we can give you coupons." And my grocer said, "If you can take in those boys, I'll let you charge coupons. So I never gave them anything but the very best meat and you know, I gave them good home cooked food. And Mr. Rucker, (Clarence) Rucker, was a beer distributor. And he told me, he said, "Mrs. Ravenel, all you need to do is let me know how many cases of beer you need, I'll send you all the beer you need. It was wonderful the way people helped me. And I enjoyed them thoroughly. It was the only time in my life I was ever treated as a combination of Greta Garbo and the Virgin Mary, and I loved it. And I said I felt so important…Somebody said, "Well, now weren't you worried about your daughters with those boys? You didn't know anything about them." And I said, "Why should I worry? If one of them had stepped out of line, the others would have killed him." They would have! They knew they had a good thing going and they weren't taking any chances. And they were just wonderful! And I can't tell you, my husband and I loved every darn one of them. And if they came back, and every one of them did, I would sit down and write their mothers. And I would say, "Your son spent such and such a weekend with us and we enjoyed him so much and he looked so well and all that kind of stuff. But mothers want to hear. And some of the mothers wrote back and I made some friends that I still write to that I've never seen. And I really feel they are close friends. Of course everybody's dying out on me now. I refuse to die.
MB:
Well that's okay! We want you around to tell all these good stories, we don't want you to leave!
KR:
Well, I don't know, but right after Christmas the phone rang. One of my boys, John Badgett, I'll show you his picture in a minute, called me from Michigan and he said, "What are you doing for New Years?" And I said, "What I've done every New Years since Sam died -- I'll sit here and look at television. And he said, "Well you'll sit with me and Lynn because we're coming down' to be with you at New Year’s." And he and his wife drove to Greensboro.
MB:
From Michigan?
KR:
From Michigan. Now I thought it was wonderful of him. But I thought it was twice as wonderful of her because I didn't mean anything to her. They came and spent 5 days, and I can't put them up here, I don't have but one bed. So they stayed next door at the Inn, and of course they ate their meals here, and we had a grand time, just a grand time. And he comes at least once a year. Now when my son was married, he was married once, and divorced. And he was married again fairly recently, several years ago. I told Johnny when he called one time, he calls more than he writes, and I said, "Guess what? We're going to have a wedding in the family." And it was to be a small wedding and I had used up my quota of guests to be invited. And Susan, Bos' present wife, she's such a dear, she's from Reidsville. She was a patient of my husband. So he would have been so pleased to know he married one of his babies. So anyway, I said to Johnny, "Bos is getting married." and he said, "Oh, I'll be there!" Well I couldn't say "You're not invited." So I had to call Susan and I said "Susan, could you push one more in 'cause Johnny says he's coming." And she said, "Well he's that kind, he thinks he's a member of the family." And we do too. We just love him. This is what I've done.
…Three boys that came, the original ones that came that I love. They named themselves "The Unholy Three." And John Melville from Pennsylvania was the dearest boy that ever lived. Joseph Barker and Eddie Smyth, well, I haven't kept track of Eddie or Joe. Jack I kept track of because he died. And he was very close. He came and stayed with us when he was badly wounded in the war. And he listed us as "next of kin." So the doctor called us up when he was in the hospital.
MB:
And where was he in the hospital?
KR:
In New York. And when he got better I said, "Can he come down here for his convalescence? " The Doctor said he could come, so he came down and stayed with us three months. He was a dear, sweet person. But this is the kind of thing he'd do -- look. I can't see to read.
MB:
"Reverse sides so this is the way 106 looked that weekend. I put only the Ravenels in the bed for moral reasons."
KR:
"I put only the Ravenels in bed for moral reasons!" And look, he put, there's Sam, that was my husband, and then of course, Kit, that's my next daughter. I guess -- I don't know who they were, but you see how he has them all stuck around. Isn't that wonderful? And then one weekend they, the “Unholy Three," wired, "Brush your teeth, comb your hair, hurry to bed, say your prayers, and before you know it we'll be there." And then I got this, "Announcing the arrival of a baby boy --weighing 140 pounds. "The Unholy Three." That's the way they would tell me they were coming.
And this is Joe Barker. I kept track of him for quite a while. But I had to give him up because.
MB:
Was he the one from England?
KR:
No. He was from Pennsylvania. This is his mother. The reason I gave him up was he used to work for this little pennywise paper. And his mother died and he was a gay. I didn't know it, and he became such a gay. I mean, oh my, and he'd even wear women's clothes a lot and I couldn't put up with that, so I had to let him go. But I was very fond of him… that's Joe and his mother. It was just terrible. It really was.
And now, this is Jack. this is my beloved Jack. He would write the most wonderful letters. You would look forward to them, they were so amusing, they were funny. You know. he was a Private at the 28th Division and he was at Fort (Benin) Georgia. And then he was Headquarters. You see I kept track of him all the way. ( ) He did that and sent it to me. Wasn't he good looking? And he really made a great success of himself before his death.
MB:
What was it?
KR:
Oh. I fixed the powder room at 106. I lined it with silly pictures – snapshots – and he put this in “Objective 106” and he cut out different faces of the paratroopers. And I’ve got a Christmas card and just letters that he wrote because these are all I have left of him. . .
[End of Tape/Interview]