The Historic
Dimension Series
A student publication series by the UNCG Department of Interior Architecture
Deep Conversation about
Conversation Pits
by Aaron Scheuermann Fall 2018
In its February
magazine in 1963, Time
magazine declared
the conversation pit dead. Perhaps it
underestimated the resilience of the design
feature. While ultimately prophetic, the Time
piece had declared the death of the pit too
early. The conversation pit would continue
to be featured in new construction until
the 1970s when it began to fall out of favor.
But the permanence of its construction has
kept some examples unmolested. For those
people who found themselves the unwilling
owners of a conversation pit, they faced
an expensive and permanent solution. The
conversation pit would be filled in with
concrete to match the level of the floors,
erasing the fact that it ever existed. Sunken
living did not die out with the muting of
the conversation pit, as sunken living rooms
remained popular in the 70s and 80s. The
fall of the conversation pit has also not been
so complete as expected by Time. A few
restoration projects have been undertaken
to unearth the relic, and real-estate websites
try to sell the house using the conversation
pit as a feature of true midcentury design.
Itself a conversation starter, the
conversation pit strived to create a social
setting. The reason the conversation pit
got its name is self-evident. The sunken
seating either in the middle of the room or
tucked around a fireplace would provide
an intimate setting for conversation or
for reading. The closeness of the space
(and perhaps lack of an easy exit) would
help spark interaction between those
sharing the space. The emphasis on this
interaction should be evident given the lack
of practicality in almost any other function
of the conversation pit. The conversation
pit and recessed living spaces certainly
provide definition and can improve the
line of sight or spacious feel of a room. The
conversation pit shows an emphasis on line
of sight and spacious, airy and uninhibited
views, sharing some similarities with the
popularity of open concepts today.
The conversation pit and recessed seating
areas did not confine themselves to the
home, but also made appearances in public
spaces. These inclusions show an active
attempt to design spaces to socialize.
One new concept called “social stairs”
incorporates seating into stairs so people can
converse on the stairs and out of the way.
These show how designs have been altered
or created to emphasize conversation and
being social.
Forebearer: Adah Robinson House
Tracy Park Historical District in Tulsa
is perhaps an unexpected place to find
a conversation pit. Consisting of mostly
1920s Georgian Revival, Bungalow, Dutch
Colonial, and Cottage style houses, the
neighborhood does not seem the likely
choice to house the Robinson House, an
Art-Deco structure which was designed by
Bruce Goff and Joseph A. Koberling, Jr. The
house sticks out because of its midcentury-looking
design. It features terrazzo floors
and leaded glass windows, a two-story tall
living room, and an original conversation pit
surrounding the fireplace. This 1924 original
inglenook certainly lacks the size of later
While
ultmately
prophetic,
the Time
magazine
piece had
declared the
death of the
pit too
early.
UNCG The Historic Dimension Series: 2
Fig. 3: Conversation Pit at the Miller House in Columbus,
Indiana. Designed by Eero Saarinen.
conversation pits, and its use likely led to a few toasty
toes, but it shows the same general interest in creating
an intimate space. The Adah Robinson House proves an
early iteration of the concept that would become most
popular nearly a half century later. Though not a fully
sunken area, the small semi-circle around the fireplace
certainly shows a design meant to encourage the same
behavior as the later conversation pits did.
Early Example: J Irwin and Xenia Miller House
The J Irwin and Xenia Miller House in Columbus,
Indiana, also prominently features a conversation pit.
Now a national landmark, the Millers contracted Eero
Saarinen, Alexander Girard, and Dan Kiley as architect,
interior designer, and landscape architect, respectively.
The living space featured a very spacious carpeted
conversation pit. Keeping with the larger design of the
home, the pit was a communal area able to handle both
a family and easily convertible into an entertainment
space for any larger group. The conversation pit in the
Miller home proves exceptionally large with plenty of
space for a table and ashtrays. The built-in sofa lines
the pit, but provides maneuvering space for persons
inside the pit to move or play. A nationally recognized
and treasured example of Modernist design, the
Miller house highlights why the conversation pit has
enjoyed something of a resurgence, tapping in on the
relationship between the indoors and out. The sunken
pit helped maintain the sightline of the outdoors so
important to the design. Perhaps foreseeing some of
the criticism of the conversation pit, Girard helped
the Millers line the outside of the pit with flowers and
antiques which provided definition and a small physical
barrier to entering the pit. The collaboration of Saarinen
and Girard helped to create a new trend which would
be replicated far more closely than the minimalist design
of Goff. The large open floor plan of the Miller House
certainly fit its role to entertain, and the conversation pit
was no exception.
In Public Settings: TWA Flight Center at JFK Airport
While the main draw of the conversation pit was the
cozy atmosphere created with friends and family,
the concept became popular in public spaces as well.
Completed in 1962, the Trans World Airlines terminal
at John F. Kennedy International Airport was designed
by prominent architect Eero Saarinen. The thin-shelled
structure made largely of concrete and featuring large
curved glass windows certainly looks the part of a
futuristic airplane terminal. Saarinen took the rounded
and sleek look inside the building as well. A curved
walkway bridge and curved staircases led to the bright
red sunken lounge. This adaption of his conversation pit
into a public space shows that the appeal moved beyond
the home. The sunken waiting area was eventually
filled in, but was restored following the closing of the
TWA Flight Center in 2001. The conversation pit has
captured the eye of designers and the public alike. The
TWA lounge in One World Trade Center takes heavy
inspiration from the pit by creating a sunken seating
space in the lounge, complete with the eye-catching red
carpet and upholstery seen in the original.
Though Saarinen’s conversation pit had expanded
beyond the home, the TWA is not the only example of
large scale sunken seating. While sometimes including
seating, sunken courtyards are often used in hot
Fig. 2: The Adah Robinson sunken fireplace shows an
early interpretation of the conversation pit.
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Fig. 4: The renovated conversation pit at the TWA Flight
Center at JFK International Fig. 5: The Aphrodisiac Lofts in Phoenix, Arizona, feature
a conversation pit suited to bachelor life.
environments to escape the heat. More akin to Saarinen’s
example are the use of waiting areas in indoor malls.
They served the same purpose as the waiting area
at JFK by allowing people to sit and relax in a casual
environment. Importantly, the lowered space gave some
reprieve from the hustle and bustle occurring around
it. In the case of TWA and the many lounges found in
malls around America, the sunken space cared less for
intimacy than escape from its surroundings.
As a Lifestyle: Conversation Pits and Playboy
Perhaps an unlikely place to be advertising the benefits
of the conversation pit, Playboy magazine often marketed
itself as a lifestyle magazine. Among the centerfold
photos, articles and pictures about cars, vans, and
design were peppered in. Appealing to a male audience,
the conversation pit fit right in to the casual, bachelor
style Playboy was selling. The aptly named Aphrodisiac
Lofts in Phoenix, Arizona, designed by Miles Stahm
in 1964 unsurprisingly boast a conversation pit. These
apartments by Stahm were also featured in the October
1965 version of Playboy magazine. Though not the
scene for a centerfold photoshoot, the inclusion of
the apartments in the lifestyle magazine show public
perception regarding the conversation pit. Its inclusion
in “lifestyle” magazines and bachelor pads has helped
create an image of the conversation pit as less of a family
friendly place than portrayed in the Miller House.
Instead, they became more synonymous with necking
than talking. While this association may spur nostalgia
for the feature, it may have also hastened the filling in of
the pits by owners who did not want to attract attention.
Realtors have also tried to capitalize upon public
imagination for the sunken space. The connection
between the conversation pit and lifestyle seems
particularly strong. The Stahm-designed apartments
also boasted a huge lava rock wall which added to
the bachelor aura of the space. The realtors.com ad
for the space tries to capitalize on the nostalgia for the
“liberated” era by writing “Mad Men Era Phoenix for
Lease…locally, they gained quite a reputation: many
just called them the Playboy Apartments…Original
‘floating orb’ fireplace, sunken conversation pit and lava
rock wall.” The ad helps pin down why conversation
pits have gained a recent following. The ad markets the
space as a relic of the Swinging Sixties and the sexual
liberation that occurred during that time and connects
it to more modern media likely to capture the nostalgia,
like the popular show Mad Men.
The Time magazine feature that rallied for the end of the
conversation pit also succinctly explained its benefits
and the rationale behind the design. Its purpose: “to
create, in the vast tundra of the ‘living-dining-play
area,’ a separate denlike arena that could either remain
distinct or be absorbed at party time into the whole.”
The benefit of the conversation pit would always be
its versatility, being the center of the party or allowing
a group to detach and hold their own conversation.
But again the intimacy of the pit was the emphasis.
Conversation ruled the day. The space was a place
to engage on a personal or larger level with guests.
Contrarily, the complaints were also framed from a
decidedly 1960s view of things:
At cocktail parties, late-staying guests tended
to fall in. Those in the pit found themselves
bombarded with bits of hors d’oeuvres from
up above, looked out on a field of trouser cuffs,
ankles, and shoes. Ladies shied away from the
edges, fearing up-skirt exposure. Bars or fencing
of sorts had to be constructed to keep dogs and
children from daily concussions.
The Time piece did raise valid concerns. The critiques
regarding children and dogs would still strike a chord
now, but given the change in women’s attire, the worry
about exposure likely would be less of a concern than in
the 1960s. The sobriety or lack thereof of dinner guests
UNCG The Historic Dimension Series: 4
may still be a concern for climbing into and out of the
pit. Conversation pits were thus hazardous during
the very event they seemed best suited for: parties.
Though cushioned and carpeted, they were still concrete
depressions in the floor that could cause injury to child
and adult alike. And while encouraging conversation in
the confines of the pit, anyone outside the pit is excluded
from the conversation or those inside must crane their
necks to converse. The critiques also prove how houses
structured towards entertaining were expected to be
during the height and popularity of the conversation
pit.
A Similar Story: Sunken Living Rooms
Sunken living rooms also gained prominence in the
American home, largely due to the same factors as the
rise of conversation pit. While not as cozy, the recessed
living space is undeniably more practical than its
smaller counterpart. It still provides an intimate setting
and divides an open space. The sunken living rooms
also avoid the permanence of custom-built furniture
and its cost, and allows for pieces to be moved easily
around the space. The continued prominence of the
television as a central part of the American home likely
led to the adopting of the recessed living space over the
conversation pit. Quite simply, the sunken living room
allows for the prominent placement of the television
at the heart of the home. Though the sunken living
room is largely out of style, the appeal continues due to
the intimate nature. The Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas,
Nevada continues to use the sunken living room in some
of its suites, likely due to the intimate atmosphere they
help create.
That is not to say that recessed living spaces are without
their own problems, but they are less exaggerated
than those of the conversation pit. Dick Van Dyke was
constantly tripping over the ottoman in his sunken
living room on The Dick Van Dyke Show, demonstrating
the ever-present danger for the clumsy and for the
tipsy partygoers around the conversation pit. Given the
smaller depression in the foundation, the sunken living
room avoids the greatest dangers of the conversation
pit. Falling is less likely to lead to concussion, especially
for children. Time’s concern regarding vantage point
and clothing is not a problem either in most sunken
living spaces. Instead, the sunken living room provides
definition and a chance redecorate or refurnish the space
rather than deal with custom or permanent pieces.
Social Stairs
The Pennington Student Achievement Center at the
University of Nevada in Reno, opened January of
2016, is an example of public spaces encouraging
conversation. The inclusion of “social stairs” shows how
design of common spaces has been altered to encourage
spaces of collaboration. Rather than the intimate setting
of a conversation pit, the social stairs encourage both
dialogue and work to be done in a setting which mimics
stairs but conveniently moves people off to the side.
Concrete stairs outside the building match the design,
giving students a knee height surface to sit on. Though
diverging from the intimacy of conversation pits, the
stairs allow students to converse and collaborate on
their own terms. Study nooks in the building help fulfill
the need for any intimate or cozy study spots. In the
case of the social stairs, the design took into account the
propensity for students to sit and socialize on stairs and
helped create a way to do it more comfortably and out of
the way.
Fig. 7: View of a suites in The Venetian Hotel in Las
Vegas, Nevada, featuring a sunken living space
Fig. 6: The Aphrodisiac Lofts in Phoenix, Arizona, feature
a conversation pit suited to bachelor life
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Continuing Modernist Imagery: In the Movies
Conversation pits have become synonymous with
Modernist design. Perhaps most telling of the resurging
interest in the conversation is its inclusion in the Disney
movie, Incredibles 2, which captures the timeless feeling
of Modernist design. Disney/Pixar and Zillow.com
recently collaborated on a sale listing of the mansion
that the Parr family moved into. The animated mansion
is a contemporary interpretation of Modernism. The
mansion also contains some fantastical features like
a garage concealed by a waterfall and retractable
flooring that reveals an indoor pool fed by the waterfall.
Though these characteristics seem more likely in a
world inhabited by superheroes, the house also features
midcentury materials like wood paneling, brass fixtures,
in-home garden beds, and terrazzo floors. Featured
prominently in the open space is a conversation pit
by a fireplace. The inclusion certainly fits with the
other Modernist elements of the space and elevates the
conversation pit to a place of importance. Ultimately, the
prominence of the pit in the home indicates a nostalgia
for the aesthetic and for the conversation pit itself.
An Ongoing Conversation
Though the conversation pit has slowly gone quiet,
it is occasionally brought back into the discussion. Its
earliest iterations focused on intimacy and entertaining
guests, which made it popular in the 1950s and 60s.
They offered the benefit of separation without complete
isolation, and helped stimulate good dialogue. Though
the early conversation pits were meant to be family
friendly, the pits became synonymous with too much
intimacy and entertainment, as their inclusion in Playboy
points at. The family friendly image was shed in favor
of a bachelor’s dream. Along with the stigma associated
with them, the sunken seating spaces were constant
hazards to residents and guests alike. In place of
discussion, the conversation pit led to bruised shins and
black eyes. In public spaces, the purpose was to provide
escape rather than encourage talking. But they did
not die out quickly or completely. Other features took
inspiration from the pit to encourage social interaction.
The sunken living room was a practical solution to the
hazards of the pit. Lowering the whole floor of a living
space allowed far greater movement and placement
opportunities for pieces than the conversation pit.
Though not as focused on engineering a space for social
interaction, it was a logical move towards a less gawdy
and dangerous solution than the conversation pit.
Conclusion
Other trends have gone to great lengths to encourage
social interaction. Social stairs have more advantages
than giving people a place to talk. They allow stairs to
function in their normal capacity while also facilitating
conversation by giving students a place to sit, work,
and talk. Social stairs show an affinity for creative
problem solving and encouraging interaction. Though
less common than in the past, some conversation pits
remain as a tribute to a foregone era, while others are
made for the same reasons that they became popular.
The conversation pit still fosters dialogue and closeness.
Though Time had declared the death of the conversation
pit, it has adapted rather than died out. Sunken living,
though not particularly popular, remains in homes and
public settings. Spaces designed to encourage social
interaction are still a focus of architects and designers.
Fig. 8: Social Stairs in the Pennington Student Acheive-ment
Center at the University of Nevada, Reno
Fig. 10: Rendering of the Parr family home from the
Incredibles 2, prominently featuring a conversation pit
Bibliography
Bony, A., & Rakocević, I. (2005). Furniture & interiors of the 1970s (English-language ed. ed.). Paris: Flammarion.
By, E. D. (1999, Jul 09). Home front: Entertaining sinks to old lows --- ‘70s conversation pits make a comeback as homeowners ditch sofas, get groovy. Wall Street Journal. Retrieved from https://login.libproxy.uncg.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/398673445?accountid=14604
Chayka, K. (2017, March 23). The unlikely comeback of the conversation pit. Curbed. Retrieved from https://www.curbed.com/2017/3/23/15026328/sunken-living-room-conversation-pit
Cleaver, N. (2004, May 08). Seventies style sinks to new heights home trial. The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved from ttps://login.libproxy.uncg.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/317848392?accountid=14604
Cole, R. Definitely Deco. Old House Journal, May-June 2009. Retrieved from: https://books.google.com/books?id=cOCA99LY0j8C&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=adah+robinson+house&source=bl&ots=wovvCNJjIh&sig=mZuwbM_1gR4LjfUMqwKBDIyetCg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjrk7ao9s_eAhWNdd8KHYtRAZE4ChDoATAFegQIARAB#v=onepage&q=adah%20robinson%20house&f=false
Crafti, S. (2015, Sep 25). That sunken feeling. The Australian Financial Review. Retrieved from https://login.libproxy.uncg.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/1732098553?accountid=14604
Design: Fall of the Pit. (1963, February 22). Time. doi:http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,828027,00.html
Faulkner, R., Nissen, L., & Faulkner, S. (1986). Inside today’s home (5th ed. ed.). New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston.
Goldin, Greg. “Meet George Jetson.” EBSCOhost, libproxy.berkeley.edu/login?qurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ebscohost.com%2flogin.aspx%3fdirect%3dtrue%26db%3dasu%26AN%3d505280760%26site%3deds-live. Accessed 17 Oct. 2018.
Krino, G. (1996, Oct 12). Out of the Pit: Sunken conversation area is transformed from a 3-foot hole to a pleasant entertainment area. Orange County Register. Retrieved from https://login.libproxy.uncg.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/272835187?accountid=14604
Lynch, P. “New TWA Lounge Opens as Construction Moves Forward on Hotel Transformation” 29 Sep 2017. ArchDaily. Accessed 3 Dec 2018. https://www.archdaily.com/880705/new-twa-lounge-opens-as-construction-moves-forward-on-hotel-transformation
Piña, L., & Girard, A. (2002). Alexander Girard designs for Herman Miller (Rev. & expanded 2nd ed.). Atglen, PA: Schiffer Pub.
St. Hill, C. (2016). Alexander Girard: A designer’s universe. Blueprint, (347), 216-217. Retrieved from https://search-proquest-com.libproxy.berkeley.edu/docview/1805993717?accountid=14496
Student Achievement Center Preview. Nevada Today. https://www.unr.edu/nevada-today/news/2015/student-achievement-center-preview
Zap, Claudine. Can We Talk? Let’s Discuss these 6 Homes with Conversation Pits. Realtor.com 3 February 2016. https://www.realtor.com/news/unique-homes/conversation-pits-in-homes/
Fig. 11: Rendering of the Parr family home from the Incredibles 2, prominently featuring a conversation pit
Fig. 9: Conversation pit at the newly finished woman’s club The Wing in Brooklynn, New York.
UNCG The Historic Dimension Series: 6Zillow Reveals New Details and Photos of The Parr Family Home in Celebration of the Release of “Incredibles 2” pixarpost.com. 29 May 2018. https://www.pixarpost.com/2018/05/incredibles-2-house-on-zillow.html
Image Credits
Fig. 1: Courtesy of Columbus Area Visitors Center
Fig. 2: Courtesy of Old House Journal
Fig. 3: Courtesy of Columbus Area Visitors Center
Fig. 4: Courtesy of ArchDaily.com
Fig. 5: Courtesy of ArchDaily.com
Fig. 6: Courtesy of The Bancroft Library
Fig. 7: Courtesy of Hotels.com
Fig. 8: Courtesy of Aaron Scheuermann
Fig. 9: Courtesy of the-wing.com
Fig. 10: Courtesy of Pixarpost.com
Fig. 11: Courtesy of Pixarpost.com
The Historic Dimension Series is a collection of briefs prepared by UNCG students under the direction of Professor Jo Ramsay Leimenstoll. For information on other topics in the series please visit the website at go.uncg.edu/hds
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