Oral history interview with Marvin Richardson [Army town]

              ARMY TOWN -- ORAL HISTORIES 1
INTERVIEWEE: Marvin Richardson
INTERVIEWER: J. Stephen Catlett
DATE: July 13, 1993
[Begin Interview]
JJSC: The following is an interview with Marvin Richardson of Greensboro, who was an M-P [military police], at B-T-C [Basic Training Center] 10, O-R-D [Overseas Replacement Depot] base in Greensboro during World War II.
MR: (fades in) And I’ll tell you about these—And this was our headquarters. Here, this is a picture of us at the headquarters in formation as [it was, unclear] with the military police
JSC: Uh huh [Speaking Simultaneously]
MR: and uh, that—outside of that building over here we had that American flag.
JSC: Well I’ll be.
MR: We put it in like that see. And just beyond that, there was the headquarters and the—and the prison was there also [see ?]. That was all—that’s where the enlistment men came in, the officers came in, and we —
1 This recording was conducted by J. Stephen Catlett, Archivist at the Greensboro Historical Museum, as part of the research for the Army Town: Greensboro 1943-1946 exhibit that was held at the Greensboro Historical Museum from November 1993 until November 1995. Excerpts from this recorded were played in the Army Town exhibit, as well as in the current (2014) Voices of a City: Greensboro North Carolina. JSC: And what is this building actually called? Or was that the…
MR: Well, this was just headquarters building of the military police.
JSC: Oh yeah. I’ve got a small…
MR: You’ve probably had more.
JSC: Well I have one thing to add. This is a little map. I believe y’all were—weren’t you over here? This is —
MR: Yes [Speaking Simultaneously]
MR: [Can’t be anymore important?] Okay, this is
JSC: Warehouses.
MR: Yeah, we is right here. Let’s see. I think its Sullivan Street, now is it? No? Yes?
JSC: This is where Bessemer comes down, where it curves up. And this is Summit over here. So…..
MR: We were near the [motor pool ?] not far—but the—let’s see —
JSC: Dispensary[?], chapel, [Fire Station ?], post exchange, theater, motor pool, It might not actually be on here.
MR: Well we were down in—No we were down in here
JSC: Here’s the present area [Speaking Simultaneously]
MR: Yeah, yeah, here we go. Alright, what is this street here? This F[?] Avenue there.
JSC: I don’t know
MR: Is that Sullivan there?
JSC: It could be.
MR: It used to be West Sullivan. See there was WAC [Women’s Army Corps] quarters in the gate three, gate four—Main gate. Where is Bessemer and Summit?
JSC: Here’s Bessemer, and Summit is about right here. The gate as I understood it was set back about quarter hour or something somewhat.
MR: Set back, set back, yeah. [Speaking Simultaneously]
MR: It was set back with a bamboo
JSC: Right and I’ve got pictures
MR: You did, you did. I have —
JSC: In fact we’re going to ,… [unclear]
MR: [both speaking, unclear] that gate [unclear]. Then everybody would come in there for the visitors and —
JSC: Now would be stationed there at the main gate?
MR: I did at times but—Sometimes I was on patrol and then I was stationed at the main gate on Saturdays and Sundays a lot. And I can remember when all—You see when the—I came here Mr. Catlett in April of 1943. Well see this base opened in March of ‘43. I finished my jiu-jitsu school in Miami—in my military police training. And then after all of my training, I think it was around April the 15th that we came here. We were assigned to Greensboro, North Carolina. There was only 5 of us from that jiu-jitsu school that came into here. And course they had military police coming from all over, because this base was just being started there.
JSC: Sure
MR: What they did was coming in there about the thousands a week see.
JSC: Yes
MR: And I can remember then that was all the basic training. And we were in the military police. And then we—Some of them came in from different bases all over the country to come in to here to organize this military police.
JSC: Yes MR: And for these---soldiers trained here.
[both speaking unclear]
JSC: Did the MP force increase in size—quite a bit?
MR: Yes sir. Yes[Speaking Simultaneously]
MR: I—When I came here, it was about, I think we were about fifty of us. And then, this picture hear I think we posted around a hundred and twenty. And we just kept increasing as the base kept increasing. Even when that base started in with I don’t know how many soldiers, but in actually up in out my area I remember, around twenty-five thousand soldiers were here [at the time ?]. And I’m sure over three hundred thousand was here over the whole time with O.R.D. and all the [overseas returning ?] —.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] I’m trying to remember the figure we used..
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] I know
JSC: It’s about—a little under four hundred thousand three hundred and eighty five—so —
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] That’s about right to, from the total that went in to this base in three years.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
MR: See, I came here in April of ‘43, and I left here in October of 1944.
JSC: [Unclear – possible correction of date?]
MR: Forty-five.
JSC: Forty-five
MR: Forty-five. I left at October ‘45. And I understand the base closed sometime right in ‘46 then.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Right. It was actually—it went right into about September—it went to about September—but was being teared down all the time
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] I don’t remember if I was—Yes, all the time—and after I left in ’45 it was—I think —
JSC: You were there under Colonel Younce[?]. Do you remember him [both speaking unclear] —
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes, Yes, I sure do.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] We have some of his papers, that we got.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] We got photographs, that came with —.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes
JSC: He was the postmaster of Charlotte.
MR: Yes, Colonel Younce. Yes, he was one of our [pause] commanding officers.
JSC: They had a real problem in the early ’46. Cause of course everyone wanted to get out of the military when the war was over.
MR: Yes
JSC: And, in fact I’ve got a chart that we’re going to use that shows—In—He had these charts prepared here in Greensboro then they went up to Washington to argue their case.
MR: Yes JSC: Because they would be expecting 200 men one week and they’d get 2,000.
MR: Oh is that right?
JSC: In the chart—Something like that—the chart will show —
MR: This was in ’46? JSC: Yes in ’46.
MR: You see I was in that outfit. I came here—When we first came here, Steve, In April, this is what we called mud. In fact, it was all red clay. I’d never seen so red clay [chuckle]. In fact most of the soldiers called it Mud Camp or —.
JSC: [unclear]
MR: I don’t think it had been built, but they said it was open in March of ’43.
JSC: That’s right.
MR: And I think—It’s probably November, December, January they just—they were still building before they actually finished—I don’t remember [that ?].
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] While reading—While reading of it in—We have a whole set of the base newspapers.
MR: Yes. [pause] 10-Shun?
JSC: Well yes. It was 10-Shun, [ORD News, unclear], and Rotator I think were the three titles.
MR: [Speaking simultaneously] [unclear]. Yes, I remember the last one.
JSC: I’ll let you look through those.
MR: That’s [alright ?] Yes.
JSC: But what they—They were saying that—They were divided up into blocks or areas like 700, 500 block or whatever.
MR: Yes
JSC: And—they would complete one area and move soldiers in to the next area.
MR: [Speaking simultaneously] [unclear] Yes. All mud!
JSC: Yes
MR: [chuckles]
JSC: Now, you’re not a native of Greensboro, North Carolina?
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] No.
MR: I’m from Portsmouth, Virginia. And I went into service in—in Richmond, Virginia, and I went into Miami, Florida. That’s where I did my training and went to the jiu-jitsu school [in ?] military police training. And then after I finished my training, they shipped me here to Greensboro for this new—all we knew was a new basic training center coming up, [see ?]. [unclear —]
JSC: Yes. Were you getting—or did you enlist in the army, or the air force?
MR: [Speaking simultaneously] I [was ?] —I just—I just, was drafted actually in the army.
JSC: Okay, in the army.
MR: And, from what I understand, this was called, the army air corps. And then—Then it eventually went into the army air force. I believe that was in ’47 when—when —
JSC: [both speaking unclear] When it became a—separate service.
MR: [unclear]. Yes
MR: And I just went into the service, and I went to Florida for my basic training and after my basic—my basic training with the military police, and then they shipped me here because this was a new center. And well, when I came to Greensboro, I thought this was the most—gorgeous place [laugh], and I still do. And--Like you said—In nineteen—In April of ’43, and I met my wife here, and that summer of ’43, and in September the 17th of 1944 we were married. We would be married forty-nine years this September. And I loved it so much, when I got out of the service and went back to Portsmouth, Virginia, I said “No I want to come to Greensboro” cause we—I thought that this was a beautiful—still do. [unclear] Viriginia.
JSC: Had you ever travelled through North Carolina prior to that?
MR [Speaking Simultaneously] Oh, yes, yes, yes.
JSC: I’m curious [if] what your memories of the base might be like. [phone/beeper rings] Hold on.
MR: Okay.
JSC: Hold just a second
MR: [unclear]
JSC: I was going to ask you—What did I start to ask you? What’s your—I was partly interested in your—if you were trying to tell people about the base when you first got here. I’ve been trying to ask people to give me a since of what a military base is like or, you know was it hustle and bustle all the time, or where the people, soldiers coming and going. Course I guess you being an MP your were—when you were on duty you were seeing a lot more activity perhaps than others.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.—That’s Right.
MR: Well [pause] It was a—Just picture this, all of these young boys coming here, were just enlisted or drafted into service. They thought that when they came here, this was one of the most wonderful places they thought they’d ever be. They said to me these things: “Because it’s right here in town” “Everything is—well you know you can walk downtown”, “You can—family can come in”. And what happened, when I used to be stationed at the main gate, on Saturday and Sunday. Well, they used to do all the drilling in a day, but usually Saturday and Sunday was a—it was a quiet time for them. But they were all restricted. They didn’t realize that this is basic training; “I can’t go off that base, even though I’m in town”. They said “This was a beautiful—“. And the families were coming here, and I can remember so many times that I’d be there on the military police on the gate and people would—see they could drive their cars you know right at Bessemer Avenue in the city. All of sudden you come up to it and there’s a gate. And they “I want to see my son” [chuckle]. And—We—We put them in the—the gatehouse there, we’d put them in there and I said tell them—. I had some lady come in from Pennsylvania, they came in from Richmond, Virginia. A whole family come in from Richmond, Virginia, said there son was stationed here; and I said—I don’t remember the names now. And “Do you know—Oh yeah, I know where he is and everything”. I said “But he can’t come out”. And they thought that the son could come and visit, and you know, this was a nice town. I said “Yes, it is still a military base you know” [chuckle]. And it was unique because of the city limits right here.
JSC: Yes MR: And everything we did here in the military police, we had to work with the—Greensboro Police Department because it was civilians and soldiers involved in clubs and restaurants and if they had fights and it was always [with ?] a civilian are—a soldier—and they’d call us because we were the military police to take in a soldier, and yet they could take them right downtown to jail. This is what [was ?] unique about that [see ?]—[ both speaking unclear].
JSC: That—that raises a—
MR: Yes
JSC: --question that I wish you could clarify a little bit.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Alright.
JSC: I was taking to someone the other day about—Now if—If there were problems or unruly soldiers or disruptions could the merchants or the citizens, would they first call the police or would they call you?
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Right. Okay. Right
MR: They’d call the Greensboro Police, and then the Greensboro Police would—come —call us. So we’d be there and would—they’d be there, we’d take care of the soldier. What we would do, we would take care of the soldier [except if it was just a fight ?], a misdemeanor of—you know. Like—They would let us take the soldiers back. What we would do, take the soldiers back to the base, talk to their C-Q [Charge of Quarters] [in ?] their barracks and restrict them to that barrack. Now, if it was a felony of any type, or any—if merchants were stealing, now city police had control over our soldiers; We couldn’t do a thing about it. We—They would just cooperate with us, so we could be “with them” see.
JSC: Yes
MR: But, anytime that they want to press charges they had that right to do that. But they would try to work with us, because a lot of the soldiers were only here for a short time, on the way out, see it was a basic training center. And then I think in May of ‘44 it turned over to Overseas Replacement Depot. That made a big difference then see. JSC: In what way?
MR: Well—then you had soldiers who had been overseas. You had soldiers that was ready to get out. It was very [pause] unruly soldiers then. The first months in ’43 it was basic training. This was soldiers who just left home. Some of them had never been any from home—before. And coming into a town and think their parents could see them and there are all these things. And had their basic training—well, few short weeks they’d be out going over seas somewhere [then ?].
JSC: Now—That’s an interesting—You would think if you were just [pause] trying to write something down or think about it then, once the men had become military and gotten disciplined and even gone over seas and when they would come back they’d might be a little more disciplined
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes
MR: Well—
JSC: Were they looking forward to the freedom, I guess, or the R&R—
MR: You would—You would think that and we felt that a lot. But I believe the reason, see, they—they had the military behind them, and here was a city now, they could just walk to the town, go to a bar, go to the restaurants and all, and they seemed to be a little—on their way out, see, [they would say like to me ?] “I’m on my way out, what are you going to do to me now, you know?” [chuckle]
JSC: Yes
MR: And it seems like it was—the—the basic training soldiers, when they did get a pass to go out and visit, they were very—they didn’t have very—very little money to spend, see.
JSC: Yes
MR: And I found out that there was—is a little difference that way.
JSC: Yes
MR: We had some—rough soldiers coming from overseas and the Overseas Replacement Depot.
JSC: Now my readings, and there is a professor at Guilford College, Alex Stoeson, that has done a lot of research on World War II Greensboro.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
JSC: But, I might be getting a lot from—
MR: Yes
JSC: But, he thought there might be—that there was a difference a little later on; but by and large his overall thesis or theme is that there was pretty good relationships between the military and the town. There was not a lot of disruption—
MR: It wasn’t.
JSC: Oh.
MR: I don’t think so either.
JSC: Yes
MR: I—I think we did very well for the location we had. If you remember where the base is, you actually—within [?] a mile and a half—
JSC: Yes
MR --there was Jefferson Square, that was what we always called it, see. You could walk to various things. I don’t remember us having a lot of problems.
JSC: Yes
MR: I can remember the first duty that I ever performed as a military policeman. I had my jeep and another fellow was with me, and then we had a second jeep, and we were called to the Knuckles Barbecue off near old Summit Avenue. They said that, we have a fight here with civilians and soldiers and we want y’all to come take care of the soldiers. I can remember, I said, “I’ll go in the front door y’all go around to the back”. And when we went in it was civilians and—and soldiers fighting. And the first thing that it me was a beer bottle [chuckling] went across me [?], and I had all that white on [chuckling]. It didn’t hurt me that much but—
JSC: Did you have a helmet?
MR: Had what? No, we had the—the caps like this on, see. We didn’t have those, we had the regular caps in. That was a—that was a summer thing.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes—Okay.
MR: But when we drove the jeep, I had the regular cap with the white on and the white gloves and all. But, when we went in, the police came in too, see they took care of the civilians and it was just a misunderstanding, drinking, you know how we [unclear]
.
JSC: Yes.
MR: And we’d take the soldiers away, they’d take the civilians away, we’d never had any more problems with Knuckles. Knuckles was very happy. He said—[unclear]—well you know—you would think that—“I don’t want soldiers around”. But they didn’t do that. I thought it was very—everyone was very, congenial in the—opening their homes to people and all, in the [?] military. I thought so, for the time I was here. And I stayed here longer than some of us [unclear].
JSC: Now, with your experience in the military was basically basic training in Florida, then up here?
MR: Up here, yes.
JSC: And then you got out from here?
MR: I got out from here. I left from here in October and went in to Salina, Kansas; and then after that, I was—In Salina, Kansas I was with what they called in—like an overseas replacement. This was when they were mustering people out.
JSC: Yes
MR: You had so much service, and after three years—Then I left the service in March of 1946. I was in there three years, see.
JSC: Now what—comparison does Salina has to Greensboro—
MR: Well, Salina was an air force base.
JSC: Yes
MR: But, after the air force, they was using Salina, Kansas as a “mustering out”.
JSC: Yes
MR: What they would do—bring them in from California and all [the ?]—and stay there till you get all your records, and to get you to your closest base back home. The object of the services would be, where did I come in. I came in at Richmond, Virginia—
JSC: Yes
MR: And my home was [unclear] Virginia. Although I’d loved to been out here, but no—I was mustered out and got out of the service in Fort Mead, Maryland, closer to Virginia see. That is how they would do it.
JSC: Yes
MR: And you would be waiting in Salina until we—time you—they could get you back to your home base to discharge you.
JSC: Yes.
MR: That’s how that works.
JSC: Now my information is that [cards/pages flipping] Greensboro really had the largest base within, inside a city limit.
MR: City Limits. I don’t know of any other. [both speaking unclear]
JSC: And most people that—seem to think that was the big difference, I mean that you did have this local connection. People could walk.
MR: Yes.
JSC: And you weren’t stuck out in a military base way outside of a town which in many cases wasn’t very big.
MR: That’s right.
JSC: Yes—
MR: Well in Salina, Kansas see you had to have a bus to get in. You couldn’t walk there. It was way out there because it was a base—air base, eventually.
JSC: Yes
MR: I mean when they started it. And then they used that, just like OR—Greensboro did ORD to “muster”, well I call it “muster”, you know the discharge. Get them delivered—to the base closest to their home. It seemed like they always tried to get you closest to the—where you came in.
JSC: Yes. Now what was life like for you? Did you live in a barracks or—
MR: I lived in the barracks until I got married in 1944. Then they gave you an allotment to live off the barracks. Then I lived in an apartment off of here on Elm Street.
JSC: Had you—Was your wife from Virginia?
MR: No, my wife was from here—from Greensboro. She worked in the postage exchange here in the BTC center.
JSC: So you met her there?
MR: I met her there.
JSC: Another one. [Laughs]
MR: That’s another one, that’s right.
JSC: [Simultaneous laughs] [unclear comment]
MR: And I—I enjoyed it, Greensboro and I say when—This September we’ll be married forty-nine years.
JSC: Congratulations.
MR: Thank You. Love her more today than I did when I married her. Unusual isn’t it. I [both speaking unclear]—
JSC: What did you think about barracks life though? I mean, had you—
MR: Well I—
JSC: I think it affected people differently depending on their background. I’ve talked to people who were an only child, and they found the lack of privacy more—harsh than maybe some other people that had bigger families.
MR: I didn’t—I didn’t—Well see I was, I guess maybe was a little different. Being in the military police, we had barracks and we had different shifts. I would have my bunk, and I may work the day shifts and then I’d be sleepy. Then other people—other boys would be sleeping in the daytime and they’d be in the night shift. And we just kind of, had a little happy family in our barracks and everyone kept the bunks [all?] nice. It wasn’t like inspection, like you would find in normal, you know, the old sarge is coming in everybody.
JSC: [Simultaneously Speaking] [chuckle ?]
MR: Because we had a job to do and each shift—we had twenty-four hours. See, eight hours, it was someone on duty [both speaking unclear]—
JSC: How long was a shift?
MR: Eight hours.
JSC: Eight hours?
MR: It was where I worked.
JSC: Okay—
MR: And we had—That’s when—that’s why I said we had [pause] different military police coming in all the time. Some of them were moving out, some were—moving in.
JSC: Now I’ve asked most of the soldiers to try to describe the barracks. The reason being were going to recreate the barracks soon.
MR: Yes.
JSC: We have a couple of—We have an original bunk bed from the base; and so we’re going to do a cutaway which will let you see a bunk and other stuff—but, what, do you have any memory of what you’ve been through of what your barrack was like?
MR: Yes. We had the double bunks in ours and we had two old, what we called pot-belly stoves, right near the center of that barrack; that’s all we had in there. Out in the back of the barrack, we had a latrine there. On the outside we did all the shaving—
JSC: Was it connected to yours?
MR: Well--No, well it was not connected to it. You’d have walked from here right to there. You just walked out to the—you was in the weather.
JSC: Okay
MR: But you just walked down the steps into that long terrain—latrine this way.
JSC: Yes.
MR: And that was all your shaving and your [pause] stools, all was there.
JSC: Yes.
MR: All we had in our barracks was just the bunks. The old wooden bunk, the one you have might be like that, and two pot belly stoves in the middle; I mean one on this end and one this [end ?]—in the middle of the floor.
JSC: Oh, yes—
MR: See if you have some somewhere else [?]
JSC: Well I wanted—one question that came up—
MR: It may be that some of them might have been a little different, but I—
JSC: But see that’s the thing.
MR: I don’t know—
JSC: They were about—The barracks were about twenty feet wide and [eleven ?] feet long. MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Okay. That’s right, there you go [?]
JSC: Now do you remember the—Did the bunks come off the wall like that?
MR: No ours—[both speaking unclear] Ours were like this.
JSC: Okay.
MR: Like that. Just kept on coming down. Had room in—had your [pause] What do you call it? All your bunks were like that. Then you had your— Oh, what is it?
JSC: Your foot locker?
MR: Foot locker, Yes. Your foot lockers were right here. Alright, then over this side—those bunks did this way, same thing. Then we had and old stove right here in the middle, like that, on each end.
JSC: Now are you saying—
MR: That—That was how ours was see.
JSC: Are you saying that the foot lockers were between the bunk and the wall?
MR: Between the bunk and wall and on—on top of that, you’d have enough room here for that bunk here and on top of that we’d have the—hanging space.
JSC: Yes
MR: See. And then my bunk was right here. I’m touching my bunk when I was like that. But I could get to my locker here and all of my hang-up clothes was here. And the other boys was right in here. He—One was on top of the other.
JSC: Yes
MR: His was right here [unclear], hang-up clothes. [Both speaking unclear] Shelf over here with all the—
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Well, was there a shelf above the rack for your [unclear ?] clothes. MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] We had a shelf above the [battle ?] rack.
JSC: Okay. See I’ve heard—[Speaking Simultaneously]
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] See that one was—
MR: Maybe that—Maybe the military [probably ?]—that’s the only one I [could/would] go in. But I could remember we could walk right on in the floor. Had the old stove out here, see.
JSC: Yes
MR: And then the bunks would be lined up like that, I could see them and all [?]
JSC: Yes
MR: And over here you had your [unclear].
JSC: Yes
MR: And we had to mop that floor and keep that floor clean [and all ?]. And we did that and—for—
JSC: Maybe they [both speaking unclear]—Maybe they allowed some differences. The variations I’ve seen, or people have described, and some—some people are not as—Some of them also described the bunks, but they were thinking the bunks were against the wall and maybe the foot lockers were here; and then other people said, well in their barracks, the [lights ?] were out that way.
MR: [Lights ?] Yes.
JSC: However it seems only 20 feet from here to here.
MR: Yes
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] If you put about a 6 foot bunk and a 6 foot bunk—
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Six foot [I figure ?]. JSC: —You only have eight feet, So I not sure—
MR: I was—See after—[unclear] headquarters here—
JSC: Yes.
MR: Where that building is, on that street, I could walk out my barracks out to headquarters [sliding paper or chalkboard erasing] We could just walk to it see. You don’t see it here, see these barracks, like this, this is—some of the barracks like this see.
JSC: Right.
MR: But-but back over here is a barrack [chalkboard writing]. My barrack was right over here, right in—That was the headquarters here, and that was the prison, Stedpost [?] Prison.
JSC: Yes
MR: Right beside that.
JSC: [Speaking simultaneously] Wait I can show you a map I’ve got of things; an ORD map [?].
MR: [Speaking simultaneously] [unclear] Then they got a mess hall
MR: Well you see this was fifty years ago [chuckle]
JSC: Yes, I know.
MR: It’s hard to—
JSC: Well, I think that your memory is great.
MR: Yes that [pause]. But ours was like it. Now maybe not some of them but ours was. We’d walk right on in that barracks. You know the [unclear]—anything out this way. Maybe some of them. I can’t remember it seemed to me that I thought all barracks were the same size. Maybe some of them were. It seems like to me—
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Basically they were 20—20 feet wide or long— MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] That’s what I thought, just like this, look at this. This is about what you was just talking about right there isn’t it.
MR: And this building here, all—this was just headquarters. Enlisted men came in here and the officers came in here.
JSC: Now also I understand they were building fairly crude buildings. Did you had [have] exposed to wood, right?
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Oh yes.
MR: To me it looked like—composition, right in here that this stuff. It wasn’t anything elaborate now, it was cold in there. Those old potbelly stoves with coal in them; you had to keep them, especially in the wintertime, you had to keep them going and [wrapped ?] up.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
JSC: Did you take turns being in charge of the stove?
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes. Yes.
MR: What we had—We had what they called a CQ [Charge of Duty]. Our shift—in our military, our sergeant was head of that. He would get someone to make sure that the barracks were clean and the stove was taken care of, then the next shift, and it worked out that way, because you see ours was little different from a soldier coming in. He was in basic training, he had to get up and get his barracks in [unclear]. And—We were coming and going all the time.
JSC: Right, right.
MR: So I don’t remember—I could just remember, they would all be falling out of the barracks. But I don’t—I don’t think I ever went inside one of their barracks. I went in the—the front were the sergeant in charge would be.
JSC: Yes
MR: I was telling you some of the families would come in. They’d start crying and all, they had come all that way, they want to see their son. So what I would do, I’d go up to the barracks and talk to the sergeant, tell him what the situation was, say that mother and father was all out at the gate. And he’d say “Well you know that they are restricted”. Well I said “I know that, I’ll take care of them”. So he let me bring the soldier in so he could see his family, and all that was [difficult ?]. Because, everything was so new they had just left home and hadn’t seen momma in [chuckle]—and I’m sure they called “Come on mama, we’re in Greensboro, you can see me” but they couldn’t, see. [both speaking, unclear] That was unique.
JSC: Sounds like there was a little bit of latitude to be—
MR: Yes, yes.
JSC: —accommodating
MR: We did.
JSC: Was that just depending on you as an individual
MR: No—No it was some of the other too.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Because, you know, you were in the service, and it was a Saturday afternoon or Sunday, it was quiet and you hate to see those people come in from Pennsylvania or Richmond, Virginia, drive a car. You see—It’s not like—some of the bases you know, you’re maybe four miles out of town, you got a great big gate to get through.
JSC: Yes
MR: Greensboro, you just come off of Summit Avenue, you just take your car, you’re there. [Laughing while speaking, unclear] what do you do then. “Miss you’re going to have to pull over car here. See, that was just a regular street, [there’s no coming in ?]
JSC: Yes
MR: We would just have that gate, and everybody just thought “Boy this is—My sons here!”, okay [chuckles]. And it was very accommodating.
JSC: Yes. What do you remember about the—sort of recreation or entertainment, or the things you did when you were off.
MR: Well, I didn’t do a whole lot of—they had the—I can’t remember that, way up off there, I think it’s still there. A recreation center that we used to—
JSC: Service Club?
MR: Service Club, maybe play some basketball. That’s all we did mostly with Military Police. We had our own area service club that we did most of ours right there. So I wasn’t in that part that, you know the soldiers would do.
JSC: Yes
MR: We had our own mess hall we had our own service club; we did everything right there is this area. The prison was there. Some of our boys guarded prisoners. I can remember just before I left, when in ’44 they had it, but they had German prisoners come in here. And some of the boys would guard those prisoners, and they would work around the ground. They had to take some many prisoners out and they had the [unclear] on and back, and they were Germans. And I didn’t know a lot of that, cause I didn’t—I would not—that was not my duty, but I remember some of the boys did do that.
JSC: Yes
MR: And I understand that some those German soldiers even went over to R.J.R. [(R)ichard (J)oshua Reynolds Tobacco Company] and worked in those tobacco factories over there.
JSC: [interested hum]
MR: That’s what I [unclear]—
JSC: Well I was talking to—
MR: Well I don’t know a whole lot about the Germans, how long or how many was there I just remember that we had German soldiers in imprisonment.
JSC: Yes MR: You see, everything was right here. Everytime we—we’d go to the headquarters, go to the mess hall or go the club we’d see the prisoners or the people coming and going all the time.
JSC: Now if you wanted to see a movie or a film or—
MR: Well a movie, now we would just go to—the—
JSC: Theaters
MR: Theaters on base. Then they had the big main PX [post exchange] not far from the main gate. The main PX and the main theater was right there. Anytime that you wanted to see a movie you’d go to the theater. Another unique thing about this base that I was involved in, being so close to town, we had a lot of civilians, worked on this base, all of them from the PX – the postal exchange. I believe it was, what, nine—maybe nine postal exchange, then one [garage ?]. All of those were operated by civilians. Soldiers had nothing to do with that. We had one man that worked in the main postal exchange, some ladies too. But one man—His name was Bar B. Ables [?], he’s dead now, and I had the duty in the mornings to take him around all the PXs. Being all the moneys involved, the military [made sure] to have a guard with him when he picked up all the money from the postage exchange.
JSC: Yes
MR: We then went to the main postage exchange and I had to wait for them to get all of that money together, then we took it down on Elm and Market street to the bank. And a guard had to be with him all the time for that.
JSC: Yes.
MR: That was protecting the officer’s money. That was—
JSC: They were [?] taking in a lot of money there?
MR: Yes, that was unique because it was so close to town too again see. I guess the other bases had armored cars, I don’t know [chuckle]. This is what we used to do, took him in the jeep and stood guard with him with all that that money.
JSC: Now, were there separate black or African American MPs? Did they have their own or did y’all, did your force police the whole base? I know there was a separate African American area on base, sort of segregated how you know it [unclear]
MR: While I was here, we just did that see.
JSC: Yes
MR: Eventually they had some African Americans, military police coming in here,
JSC: Yes
MR: And they did that in there—When we first came here, they didn’t have that many, African American soldiers, but they finally [?]—they did you know have the ratio.
JSC: Yes
MR: [Simultaneously Speaking] But we—At that time we had no problem with them, I don’t remember any—I don’t remember any problems—
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] I [unclear] going to ask about any black/white parts of town [?]
MR: You see another unique thing about it, right outside of the gate on Bessemer—you got Summit Avenue and Bessemer. Well, when you came off of Summit you came into what we called the main gate.
JSC: Yes
MR: Right in there. Alright, you go all the way through that road as straight as you could go there was another gate on the other end.
JSC: Yes
MR: That was near a lot of colored area in there.
JSC: Yes
MR: And lot of the soldiers, a lot of the ladies and all they used to come around in that fence in all that area to do shirts and all for the—for the soldiers. If they wanted [to], they had their own laundry but I remembered a lot of them—we never a lot problems with that. It seemed like that everyone was trying to get along, as far as I was concerned.
JSC: Yes.
MR: I never had one problem with anything like that. And they’d come—and there again it was so close to their homes, and I’m sure all of this base was just—I guess it was woods.
JSC: Yes
MR: The Cones they tell me owned it.
JSC: Right
MR: And they just all of sudden just fenced it in. On side that fence—Over the other side of that fence you’d see in one of the gates there’s a couple house right there. They’d come the gate, bring you tea of something—
JSC: I believe that’s why they located the—the barracks where the black [both speaking unclear] in that area
MR: In—in that area, see, and the warehouse were in that area too.
JSC: Right, right. There were about —
MR: I don’t remember of any problems that way, personally, I didn’t. I tried to get along with all of them.
JSC: What about—Did you ever get involved in sort of recreation in Greensboro outside of the base.
MR: No,no. Never did.
JSC: Cause there was—There were, quite a number of facilities that soldiers used in town.
MR: Well you see, this base had their own football team.
JSC: Yes.
MR: It was a good one. They had—what was the boy’s name, from Georgia, Tripp—
JSC: Charlie Trippi
MR: Charlie Trippi [he] was here. They had a tremendous football, basketball, their own [great ?]—
JSC: Ted Clarkson [?]
MR: Ted Clarks(on) [?] and the baseball, Grady Hatton from the Cincinnati Reds was here, see. We knew them. And what [pause]—What we did [for] recreation we had our own boxing ring for the military. Military police had to do that. All of the—our recreation had to be boxing, and we had our own ring set up right out there at headquarters.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Then, I don’t know whether it was twice a year or sometime in September, they’d put up a ring at the old memorial stadium and have boxing. I was stationed with—I don’t know if anyone told you, Billy Conn was here. Do you ever remember Billy Conn?
JSC: [I think I remember reading ?] about him in the newspaper.
MR: That fought Joe Louis. Billy Conn was stationed here. I read in the paper I guess it was just a few months ago where he died, up in—Connecticut somewhere. [unclear]—
JSC: I read in one of the base newspaper that in the summer of 43’—
MR: Yes
JSC: They say that Wednesday nights were fight nights,—
MR: Yes
JSC: and that the soldiers would march down to memorial stadium.
MR: Yes that’s right.
JSC: and cheer for the boxer from their squadron.
MR: Yes we—they did that, see.
JSC: And they said that ten-thousand soldiers would march down. We were trying to think how long would it take for ten-thousand soldiers to march there. Must’ve been— MR: [Laughs Simultaneosly] Oh yeah. I know it used to be—We used to do a lot over here at this memorial stadium, see.
JSC: Yes.
MR: The—The football team and the bask—the baseball team with Grady Hatton, we had some great players in this area for that—You see Charlie Trippi at that time was one of the greatest.
JSC: So you would say that sports and recreation was an important part of, what relieving tension? But I’ve also read that athletics was also part of conditioning and encouraging people to be involved in—
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Conditioning. Yes.
MR: We used to always have to do that; the calisthenics and the sports and like I said—Mine was a little different because we had our own as military police. And—But we used always go to the football games and—the out bases [?] playing and the baseball—I can remember Grady Hatton. Golly, that was tremendous to me to see Grady Hatton in those days. Grady Hatton was a good ball player.
JSC: I don’t think [?] I had ever heard of him [unclear].
MR: Yes, Grady Hatton with the Cincinnati Reds.
JSC: [Pause] [unclear]—
MR: It was all—I would say that [pause] some may say differently, but I would say the overall atmosphere as far as the civilians and the soldiers was very good in this area. I don’t remember—You know a lot of people brought people in their homes and it seems like each family would try to help some way; and I guess it was because it was so close to their town.
JSC: Were you ever invited to dinner?
MR: Oh, yes, yes. Invited to dinner, and that’s how—my wife and—they invited us to dinner. That’s how I met my wife, and from the postage exchange they was asking us about the dinner and—. Donald O’Connor, I used to take Donald O’Connor over to Prego-Guyes [?] I don’t know if you ever remember—. You’re not from Greensboro are you?
JSC: [unclear] I know of Prego-Guyes [?]
MR: Prego-Guyes use to have the clothing store uptown.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Prego-Guyes. Leonord Guyes is the—they all dead now. Prego and Adolph [?], take him over to—he was a very good friend with Adolph Guyes, Donald O’Connor. He did a lot of entertaining [unclear]—there to entertain—entertain for them. But [pause] each weekend seemed to me that Donald O’Connor was over at—Adolph Guyes’ house.
JSC: Do you remember or did you ever hear of the Ravenels [?]. They entertained—Sam Ravenel he was a pediatrician.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Ravenel? Yes, yes, I [knew] Sam Ravenel.
JSC: They entertained about 2,700 troops. In fact I’ve got—
MR: Yes you’ve [unclear]
JSC: I’ve got some of their scrapbooks right here.
MR: Yes, Sam Ravenel, doctor.
JSC: There was a story that the military police were called over there to—to find out what was going on because men—a lot of men were going into the house. I forget who told me this story.
MR: I remember [?]
JSC: And they were being shown upstairs. They had some kind of recreation room upstairs or [unclear], but that was a curious—but someone was sent over, so what exactly is going on here? [unclear]
MR: Yes.
JSC: I think the Cone [?] family entertained— [unclear] near the gate anyhow. MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes. Yes. Right there at the gate, the main gate you see.
JSC: That must’ve been a grand house.
MR: Well then it’s across the street, see. That was a beautiful house, and all—sitting back there with [?] all that [unclear]. Gorgeous, with a wall around it and the trees, it was beautiful. Then the one on this side [?] where Northeast Shopping Center is, right behind that it’s still there, that house is still there.
JSC: Oh, yes, that Cone. That’s a different Cone [?]
MR: Yes, that was one of the other Cones. One of the sisters or something. That’s where Mrs. Roosevelt came. She was in here in—[unclear]
JSC: Yes. Now were your involved when she came that day.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Well we were involved as traffic.
MR: I had nothing to do with her. I was making sure that the base—I was on the main gate with the traffic there. And some of them had the jeeps and cars escorting her around. I wasn’t that luck—I was strictly on the main gate.
JSC: Yes, [unclear]
MR: To make sure that everyone—there again see, every person who would come in that gate would get a salute, cause that was an honor for her to come and all the dignitary—we didn’t want—it was—it was told to us, and that was one reason I was put on that gate, they tell me because of personality, and I loved her [unclear].
JSC: Yes.
MR: And they didn’t want people—you know, a lot of the military police want to show their authority and all. I never did do that. I tried to be nice to people.
JSC: Yes.
MR: And they wanted to make sure we—We would salute everyone [who] came through that gate, because that was a great honor that, you know that is was just something again [?]
JSC: So you tended [both speaking unclear] to spend more time at that gate than at the other ones?
MR: Yes, yes, I—
JSC: Did you generally sort of rotate? I mean, did most M-Ps go to—
MR: Most of them rotate, but I spent more time at the main gate than any of them.
JSC: Yes.
MR: And then, in town on duties, patrolling in my jeep.
JSC: Would you go for a period of time, like for a week or a month you might basically be at the gate and then you would switch over; would you be doing things every—in your eight hour shift—
MR: Well—
JSC: [unclear] change—
MR: [pause] When I was at the gate, I’d stay for at least one month, on that main gate. Then the next month, I may be at the gate at times, but then I’d be patrolling, in the city. Now again it’s according—When we—When we—At—On the—late shift, we was at the gate, we would also have to leave that gate and go down to the—the train station and also the bus station, just checking and come on back again see. We always checked the train station and then the bus—well that was in two o’clock in the morning, wasn’t anything—just to check everything to make sure everything was—
JSC: [unclear] was there only one guard at the gate or—
MR: Oh no. No we had two, sometimes four at that gate, according to what time it was.
JSC: Yes
MR: And with all the civilians working on the base, now during the daytime we had at least four on that gate, checking—checking [unclear]—
JSC: How would you check?
MR: Well you would check—They had to have a pass, and any soldier walking through, he could walk through, but he had to have a pass. I had to see his pass, that he was entitled to get off that base. And just as soon as he showed me that pass, he’d be okay and let him go on. A car would be the same thing; civilian cars would have a sticker on them that they were entitled to come into that base.
JSC: Now were you ever—Did you ever actually have to search cars or vehicles or—that would be[unclear].
MR: I never did have to search any of them. Some of them they tell me they did in one of the late shifts. One of my buddies, and this is just hearsay, they was telling me that they had to search, they thought they was taking things off of the base from the officer’s club.
JSC: [unclear]
MR: And they searched some of the cars. We—I never did have to search one.
JSC: Is there anyone—
MR: A lot of booze was on there, but you didn’t see a whole lot of it.
JSC: Really?
MR: Yes
JSC: I was wondering about that. Was there—I mean liquor wasn’t really available—
MR: Well it was available.
JSC: I mean it was but [unclear] [Simultaneous Chuckling]
MR: Yes, there again you have to be very careful with that see.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Officer’s Clubs they had—
JSC: Can you remember any one incident, altercation? I mean, was there anything that stands out as a memorable event or was it just that first fight at Knuckles restaurant was—
MR: At—at Knuckles restaurant, got hit by a beer bottle, blood running all over it [?] I don’t know. It was—let me see if there’s anything special. [pause] I don’t know of anything that—that we had problems with see.
JSC: Okay. Were there any problem with places downtown that were more—
MR: Yes. Yes.
JSC: —problem places than others?
MR: Yes, you had the—You had to watch the hotels, you know they had the trolleys in Greensboro then and different hotels we had to watch and we didn’t worry about the King Cotton or the O’Henry, but some of the other hotels down on Washington street—
JSC: Yes.
MR: and the old bowling lanes down there, they had an little 8 hour lane center down there that was—you had to be very careful in that area. A lot of mischief going on down there, see. So we patrolled that. But we never had a lot of problems because we stayed right on it, it seems like.
JSC: Yes.
MR: And the police was with us. And—Now what was good about that, in that area when they found out a policeman, a city policeman would on patrol down in that area, see; and then we’d come in to make sure—they’d like for us to handle the soldiers and they handle the civilians.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Well once they found out it was, a lot of drinking and fighting going on in there around that hotel [unclear], they put patrols on and we patrolled them more.
JSC: Now do you think you were, would you have been getting, feedback or were you being ordered to do these things. I’m interested in—the town/military relations were good as far as I know.
MR: Yes.
JSC: And I imagine the town commanders were real sensitive to keeping those good relations. MR: That’s right.
JSC: So, I imagine your department, I mean your—you all were real important and—You must have been—they were getting reports on maybe a problem area, so you would be instructed to keep an extra close watch on areas? Or was that as far as you know just a matter of “well that was our patrolling area?”
MR: Well, I’m sure it was, but we got it from our sergeants.
JSC: Yes.
MR: And I here that would be some problems there, make sure that you boys patrol that area thoroughly tonight. Keep after the soldiers [unclear]—
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Which weekends would be the worst? [?] [unclear]
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Which weekends would be the worst? Payday.
JSC: Payday?
MR: Payday check [unclear] [simultaneous laughter]. Payday when all the passes and all the money came in, [they’d have a problem ?]
JSC: You would get some extra sleep at the night before that or something if you could; get some rest.
MR: [Simultaneously Speaking] Yes. Yes. Payday was all—
JSC: Would they in fact—Do you remember, would they increase the number of M-Ps on duty here.
MR: Well, what we would do on—on payday we would have—well I would have—Billy Conn and I rode together, we had two more jeeps in that area. I’d be maybe patrolling it, say eight o’clock I’d go by. I might not go by there again till nine, but another would be by there at eight-thirty, see. They would do especially on a payday because the soldiers would get the pay and get more leave; get that pass and go into town. JSC: Now you talked a little bit earlier about the difference in the changeover from B-T-C 10 to O-R-D.
MR: Yes.
JSC: What—There were some things that the O-R-D soldiers did or I understand in particular if they were going to be here to be sent overseas, to make sure they were up to date on this and that. But basically they had a lot of free time.
MR: That’s right.
JSC: Would they automatically get passes or—to go—
MR: Yes. They get passes as long as they— didn’t abuse those passes they could keep getting it. And they made sure those passes read that they had to be on that base at a certain time. I could remember—I don’t remember whether it was an order of not, but usually around one o’clock, most of the soldiers in this town were back on that base. You had very little mischief or anything going on two o’clock, three o’clock in the morning. There wasn’t anything open. And I think that the civilian police along with the colonels on the base, and I thing that worked together, and the city manager and all. It’s nothing for those boys to do out here in Greensboro. We don’t have all night places in that day you see.
JSC: Yes.
MR: So they made sure they was on that base and they were. We used to patrol, I’d go down to the bus [station ?] even on that night shift [pause] Eleven to 7 in the morning and we’d go down all [the way by the ?] train station, the bus station. Something was going on all the time there because buses were coming in and trains, but none of the restaurants were open, none of the places, and we didn’t have soldiers walking the streets either, we’d get them off the street.
JSC: [unclear] Yes.
MR: So, I don’t know whether that was an order to make sure that we get these boys passes, but only make sure that it’s to only 1 o’clock in the morning.
JSC: Yes.
MR: We don’t want them—It seems like to me that that would be and I would think so. We don’t want them hanging around these houses or streets and all with nothing going on; and I think that the corporation was that way and they did that.
JSC: It seems like though there was a lot of home based recreation and [unclear]—
MR: Oh, Yes. They always had something. I forgot how many—you probably know from the articles how many theatres they had and—
JSC: Yes, I’ve got that somewhere [both speaking unclear]
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] I think it was nine P-Xs, big main P-X, a lot of soldiers would hang around there.
JSC: Yes.
MR: They loved to be around the postal exchanges and—
JSC: Well—
MR: So I don’t know whether I’ve told you a whole lot [chuckle], but mine was a little different see.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] No you’ve given me a different—You’ve given me a different perspective, which is—which is interesting. [Pause] There was another—something else I did [?]
MR: You said you were going to—you were thinking of putting up a barracks—section
JSC: Yes. In the exhibit we are going to have two galleries. The first gallery is going to have a little introduction area about Greensboro during the forties, I mean what the city was like.
MR: Yes.
JSC: A little [unclear] summary of World War II to bring people up—because some people don’t even know what decade it’s in.
MR: Yes that’s right.
JSC: But then you’ll go into, we’re going to have probably a 4 by 5 foot transparency it will be on lockslide [?], but it will be back with the main gate [?]
MR: Oh, Yes, yes.
JSC: Then you’ll go in and see a barracks scene. There was something over there, I’ve got a photograph of it; the war information center. It started out small but then it was a real, fairly large constructive—there was a bulletin board, a big map there were you could post things.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
MR: Yes.
JSC: We’re going to rebuild that and recreate it and use it as an area to [unclear]
MR: Yes.
JSC: I’m to be changing the—
MR: The headquarters.
JSC: Yes. Then so we’re going to tear it—tell most of them the mission of B-T-C, O-R-D. We’re going to have this oral history reminiscences section.
MR: Yes.
JSC: The barracks, we’ll be talking about the basic training, all the training that was involved; recreation, home base. We’re going to have an equipment board with all the equipment that was issued to soldiers.
MR: Yes.
JSC: Then that gallery, you’ll go out of that into the other one which is really going to be for the home front. We’re going to have a U-S-O [United Service Organizations] diorama with a couple, a man and a woman dancing to music.
MR: Yes, okay.
JSC: And tell them about the recreation activities that were available in town; and then rationing scrap drives a lot of what people did at home to sort do their part for the war.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes, yes.
JSC: We’re going to recreate a living room scene and have music and news reports coming out of and old style radio.
MR: Oh, yes, yes.
JSC: What else? We’re going to have a business section with the business—
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] You’re going to have a lot of the pictures and all that. [unclear]
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Oh, yes, there are going to be 90 pictures or so.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] So it’s going to be—it’s taken a lot of time to do it.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
MR: When are you going to have all of this.
JSC: It’s going to open Veterans Day, November 11th of this year.
MR: Okay, [unclear]
JSC: And so we’re to keep it up at least two years. We want to keep it up through the end of the 50th anniversary of World War II in August of ’95.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
JSC: So it will probably be through August of ’95 and then we’ll probably close it down.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Oh is that—Yes, yes. [It’s going to be interesting ?] JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] There is going to be a lot of publicity involved in—
MR: [Being it ?]—a lot of things in the paper too probably, won’t it?
JSC: Oh yes.
MR: Yes.
JSC: And over the course of the two years or so we will be having different programs. The education department will be doing that, lectures and talks and—Who knows we might ask you to come down and sit around with a bunch of local people that were at the base and you know, reminisce.
MR: [unclear]
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] There are a lot of people interested in this time [period ?]
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes, yes.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] I talked to a group of, I guess, senior citizens. There’s something called—Have you ever heard of the Shepherd’s Center. It’s an organization; they give programs of all sorts.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes, yes, yes.
MR: Yes.
JSC: I went out a couple of months ago and there’s about 60 people in the audience.
MR: Yes.
JSC: And I sort of told them what we were involved in doing, and it was—I was really surprised, and a lot of those people were not—weren’t here during the war or had moved to Greensboro—
MR: Yes. See, there was a lot of people that moved— JSC: Yes.
MR: and didn’t even know this place existed.
JSC: But there were a lot there and they were interested. Go that’s a good sign.
MR: Yes.
JSC: And of course a lot of —there were a lot of people like yourselves—
MR: Yes.
JSC: That came through here and then moved back.
MR: And stayed, that’s right. And I love it.
JSC: I hear that constantly.
MR: I loved Greensboro, and [I sure ?] think that it is a beautiful city.
JSC: I hope we can keep it green. [both chuckling]
MR: Yes.
JSC: That’s important. But we get a lot people that come through the museum and were at the base during the war and they want to know where it is.
MR: Yes.
JSC: And what’s left of it.
MR: Yes.
JSC: We hope to have a map, perhaps—
MR: See, it’s unique, because they would say “Where’s the base?”, you know, [right around on of these streets ?] you know. That was unusual. And I got a lot of [pause] when the mothers would come here, and the soldiers [said] “Boy we can walk to town!”, you know, didn’t have to worry about transportation and all. JSC: Yes.
MR: When they didn’t get a pass—very few people [over there ?] they—they would go on up to Summit avenue, go right on into town. That was a—I guess you—What I understand is the only one [unclear]—
JSC: Yes.
MR: that was—[both speaking unclear] city limits or right in.
JSC: Yes.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] The center of town is what it seemed like to me is what I’d call it.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] That’s—That is [unclear both speaking]
JSC: What about—Did you ever go out to Camp Burman? Did—Was [there police ?] up there or do you know? It had been a recreation area—
MR: There used to be a—Well there used to be a—We used to have a rifle range out there.
JSC: A rifle range?
MR: Only time we would go out there was for our shootings. We used to have to go out to practice the shooting at Camp Burman.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] Was this a required [both speaking unclear] for M-Ps to [unclear] shooting per month or every couple of months.
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes.
JSC: Because they would [unclear] and I’ve got pictures [both speaking unclear]
MR: Yes, I didn’t do—we didn’t do a lot out there, you see— JSC: You already had you basic training.
MR: Yes, all that was—this was all basic training for that. We had had that and we just as well go out there for the shooting part.
JSC: Now did you—were you able to go home while you were here? [Speaking Simultaneously] Did you have leave?
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Oh Yes, yes. Yes, yes.
MR: I went to—See, my home was in Portsmouth, Virginia. We used to go right off [highway] 29 to Reidsville, Dansville, right on to 58, right on into Portsmouth, Virginia.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Yes, we had leave and all.
JSC: Did you wife continue working at the—[Speaking Simultaneously] at the base
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes, working at the postage—postage exchange
MR: She—She—I left here in October of ’45, and I think she, left the base in December because then they were closing some of the—I don’t remember because I left, but I remember their saying; we’ll be—closing some of the P-Xs up and—and taking the stock and put them in the other, because in ’46 it will be closed.
JSC: Yes.
MR: So, after that I left here, but she left the postage exchange, I think [in] December.
JSC: What was her maiden name?
MR: Her maiden name was Bailiff.
JSC: Bailiff?
MR: Like the Bailiff in the court.
JSC: Yes.
MR: You don’t see many—B-a-i-l-i-double “f”. Barbara Bailiff.
JSC: Now the first time you saw her did you think she might be the one. I’ve had [Speaking Simultaneously] —I’ve had a couple of people [have that happen ?] [laughter]
MR: [Speaking Simultaneously] I sure did! I sure did! I [unclear]. [chuckles] I sure did!
JSC: Isn’t that something. [chuckles]
MR: Isn’t that something. Yes. I sure did.
JSC: Now let me throw out a couple of names see if, have you ever—did you know of or ever meet Louis Felicia [?]
MR: No
JSC: Okay. He was head of the service club. He still lives in town.
MR: Okay.
JSC: What about Walter Sills [?]
MR: I know that name [Speaking Simultaneously] Yes, Sills [?] shoes.
JSC: [Speaking Simultaneously] [unclear] Sills [?] shoe store. He worked over in the public relations office.
MR: I remember the name, but I didn’t—
JSC: Have you—Did you make any friends that you, sort of, kept in contact with at all.
MR: Well—the ones that I had all—they’ve all died now that I had from here.
JSC: Yes.
MR: Everyone of them, have—passed on.
JSC: Well I’ll be—
MR: [unclear] that’s a shame. I was hoping that one day, if they had a reunion or something like that—
JSC: Yes,
MR: I—they could come back home, see.
JSC: Yes.
MR: A lot of them didn’t like—[End of Interview]
[End of recording]