Oral history interview with Cheryl Sizer, 2012

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WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL COLLECTION
ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Therese Strohmer
INTERVIEWER: Cheryl Elm Sizer
DATE: December 21, 2012
[Note: Some material has been redacted at the request of the interviewee]
[Begin First Recording]
TS: Today is December 21, 2012, apparently the last day that the world will be here, and this
is Therese Strohmer. I’m at the home of Cheryl Sizer in Colfax, North Carolina to conduct an oral history interview for the Women Veterans Historical Collection at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. Cheryl, could you state your name the way you’d like it to read on your collection.
CS: Cheryl Sizer.
TS: Okay. Well, Cheryl, why don’t we start off by having you tell me when and where you were born?
CS: Many years ago. [chuckling] I was born in Morgantown, West Virginia. My dad was going to school there and he was studying to be a geologist.
TS: Oh neat. Did he finish that?
CS: He finished that. He was a geologist for many years. We were raised in Lafayette, Louisiana. That’s where I went to high school, at Acadiana High School.
TS: So there’s where you would call home?
CS: Right.
TS: Where you grew up?
CS: Well, not so much anymore, but yes, that’s where I was raised until I went to college. And then I went to Loyola University in New Orleans in music education. I got a degree there. And then I went to Philadelphia and got a master’s degree there. 2
TS: Oh, okay. Well, when you were growing up—how long were you in Morgantown?
CS: I—You know, I’m not even sure.
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: Not very long?
CS: Yes.
TS: Okay.
CS: Not—Not long.
TS: Did—So, do you have—did you have any siblings?
CS: I had two sisters. One, Kathy was born in Ohio; Lancaster, Ohio. She’s my oldest sister; four years older than me. And then I have a sister six years younger than me, Christine, who lives here in Greensboro.
TS: Oh, does she?
CS: Yeah, [comment redacted].
TS: Yeah?
CS: But she traveled from Colorado with us.
TS: Oh, very nice.
CS: Yeah. And my other sister lives in Arizona; Phoenix.
TS: Okay.
CS: Yes.
TS: Well, when you were in—was it Lafayette?
CS: Yes, Lafayette.
TS: Lafayette. Got to get that accent down right, okay. So you—That’s where you went to—to your elementary school and—
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CS: Yes.
TS: Those years, okay.
CS: Yes.
TS: Now, did your mother work outside the home?
CS: No.
TS: Okay.
CS: No.
TS: So, she—
CS: She was a homemaker.
TS: Yeah? What was it like growing up in Lafayette?
CS: Well, interestingly enough, I was kind of an outsider. As you can tell I’m really tall and—
TS: You are tall.
CS: [chuckles] Yeah, my—both my mom and I were six feet tall, and so I lived in Cajun country—I don’t know if you’re familiar with that area but—
TS: No, not at all.
CS: —Cajuns are very petite.
TS: Oh, okay.
CS: And very brunette.
TS: Ah.
CS: And—
TS: You’re not brunette.
CS: Oh no. I’m—no. And so, I was kind of an anomaly there. Yeah, I—I remember feeling really bad about myself. I’d come home from school and I’d be crying because people would call me Big Bird.
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TS: Oh no!
CS: And Kareem Abdul Callahan. Kareem Abdul Jabbar was popular back—back in my day.
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: That’s actually kind of a cool nickname. I like that one.
CS: Yeah, but I didn’t play basketball. [chuckling]
TS: Okay.
CS: And my mom would say, “Oh, Cheryl, you just be proud of being tall, and think, you know, someday all the boys are going to want to date you when you get to college.” And she was right, but they were all about 5’5”, [both chuckling] strangely enough; really weird.
But—And then one time we were at a Michael’s store or something and a daughter was talking to her mom. You know, they were both tiny little Cajun women. She said, “Mom, look at those monsters. They’re huge,” and I just remember being so upset about that. But apparently I grew out of it and, you know, I’m pretty—pretty happy to be tall now.
TS: Sure.
CS: You know, it doesn’t bother me. So, that was—I had some trauma there, a little bit, but I had a great, great high school and I loved playing the flute.
TS: Yeah?
CS: That was my focus, you know? I got really, really good at playing, and I did all of the all-state honor bands things because that’s where my heart’s desire kind of went.
TS: Yeah. When did you find an interest in playing the flute? Was it music in particular or—I mean, in general and then you became—
CS: Yes, yes. I would say it was music in general. My dad was always playing Dvořák [Czech composer of the latter half of the 1800s] and all kinds of classical, beautiful music. He had the LPs. [long playing records]
TS: Yes.
CS: And we would dance around the house, my sister and I, you know, just listening to that music. And I had the opportunity to join the band in—I think it was fifth grade, and I remem—his name was Mr. John Ease[?]; was his name, the band director. And I wanted 5
to play the drums and I was pretty adamant about that, but he said, “Girls play the flute.” Yes, can you believe that?
TS: He just assigned you the instrument?
CS: Oh yeah.
TS: Okay.
CS: I guess he needed—either he needed flute players or he just didn’t want any girls back in his percussion section.
TS: Oh, where there any?
CS: No.
TS: Okay.
CS: You know, back in the day, girls played the flute. So, I thought, “Okay, I’ll try the flute,” and I wasn’t very good but I sure was determined. I don’t know why. I think that’s part of my personality. If you tell me I can’t do something I’m going to do it, and so that’s kind of how I—Because my parents were not musical.
TS: No?
CS: No, no. My mom actually would say, “When are you going to quit? When are you going to be done practicing because it’s driving me crazy?”
TS: [chuckles]
CS: So, you know, I didn’t really have that encouragement there. My sisters didn’t play instruments. It was just a freak accident that I picked up that instrument.
TS: Really? So you didn’t really like have a role model for—
CS: No.
TS: —playing it?
CS: No, not at all.
TS: Interesting.
CS: And I wasn’t good. I wasn’t even good enough to where my elementary—I guess it would be fifth and sixth grade, yeah, middle school teacher, she didn’t even recommend me for high school band. 6
TS: No?
CS: No, I was very disappointed in that and I told my mom I wanted to take private lessons, and so she hooked me up.
TS: Really? How nice.
CS: They—They let me—I’m sure they would’ve let me join the band but—
TS: Yeah.
CS: So, that’s kind of how that went.
TS: Well, that’s neat. Well, I want to find out more about Lafayette.
CS: Oh, okay.
TS: So what kind of things—So, you’re getting picked on a little bit?
CS: [chuckling]
TS: —as a girl, maybe a lot sometimes and—but this like the—this is what you know, right?
CS: Right.
TS: Because you were very young when you moved there. So did you live, like, in the city, rural area; where did you—where did you live?
CS: Lafayette is about two hours away from New Orleans, which would be the largest city in Louisiana. As I said, it was really Cajun country. I mean, they spoke Cajun in—I don’t think they offered it as a course in school but it was—I mean, I was a minority there and it was also the oil patch, you know. So, if you weren’t a geologist, you were involved somehow in the oil industry; you worked off shore, engineer, something along those lines.
TS: So that’s how your dad got—
CS: Yeah.
TS: —the job in this area.
CS: Actually, from West Virginia I think we moved to—down to Texas; Corpus Christi.
TS: Okay.
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CS: Yeah, I don’t remember it at all. I was really, really young. It was fourth grade when I moved to Lafayette.
TS: Okay.
CS: Yes, fourth grade. And so—yes, it’s a very nice town; really, really nice; a good community to live in. He did really, really well as a geologist, became self-employed, and then the bottom kind of fell out when I went away to college.
TS: Okay.
CS: Everything kind of fell apart in our family. We had some serious crisis. I mean, he lost his job, my mom got cancer, and my grandmother got sick and, you know; that’s a little further down the line. But when I was actually living there in Lafayette it was wonderful. I had a great childhood.
TS: What kind of things did you do for fun?
CS: I was very involved in a lot of different things. I—I was the only one in my family who went to church. There was a bus that would come by and pick me up.
TS: How—How does that happen?
CS: I don’t know. I just, you know—Often they thought I was adopted, because I was very outgoing. I wanted to do everything and they were very shy, quiet people.
TS: Okay.
CS: And so, I was very active in First Baptist Church there. I was in the science club, which I loved but, you know, didn’t pursue that direction. I was in girl’s service club and I did a lot of volunteer work. The band took up a huge amount of time; marching band. Which, you know, I didn’t like as much as I loved symphonic band and stuff like that. What else did I do?
TS: Did you have to, like, play the one to play the other, sort of? I mean, did you have to be in the marching band to—
CS: I don’t remember.
TS: No?
CS: I was just going to do it all.
TS: Yeah.
CS: I was trying to do as much music as I possibly could. 8
TS: I see.
CS: That might have been true. I just don’t remember.
TS: Did you play any sports or anything?
CS: No. I totally should have. Actually, I did cross country.
TS: Oh, running?
CS: I ran, yeah. I was just not that good. I was very, very slow but I enjoyed that.
TS: Well, you’re so tall and you know a lot of runners are more—
CS: Yeah, I wasn’t well suited for it.
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: —as you say, petite.
CS: Yeah. And then I played tennis.
TS: Oh, now that—
CS: I played on the tennis team.
TS: You probably had a good serve there.
CS: Yeah, I enjoyed that; yeah. I played a lot of racquetball but not competitively.
TS: Okay.
CS: Just with friends and such. And I liked to lift weights. I really enjoyed lifting weights.
TS: Okay.
CS: Yeah. There’s a—There was a work out facility there called Red Lerille’s [Health and Racquet Club]. I don’t know if it’s still there. But my parents got me a membership there because I wanted to, you know, keep working out and stuff. And that was another weird thing, because my family was not very physical or active; I just wanted to do my own thing. I also—I remember in fifth grade I won a DAR [Daughters of the American Revolution] competition.
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TS: Oh.
CS: And I wrote a paper on some historic figure. I don’t remember who it was. But that was a huge little turning point in my life. I was so excited that I could write something that people would read and they liked it, but it’s the weirdest thing, when they interviewed me and we were at the mayor’s office, I got the key to the city of Lafayette, and they said, “So, Cheryl, what do you want to do when you grow up.” And I don’t know what—I said I wanted to be a mailman, because I liked the little jeeps. [chuckling]
TS: [laughing]
CS: What? Who says that? I just—And my parents just slapped their foreheads and said, “What? You don’t want to be a doctor or—what?”
“No, a mailman. Yes, that’s my life’s dream.” But at that time I was—That kind of boosted my self-esteem a little bit—
TS: Sure.
CS: —thinking, “Wow, I could totally accomplish something.” Not that I needed it. I was pretty confident. I was feeling pretty good about life in general. I was a very happy person. Yeah.
TS: Now, did you have teachers who were mentors for you at all, in any way?
CS: Oh yes, of course. My band director of course, Gerald Waguespack, now deceased just recently. But he, of course, was a huge influence on me. Also, Art Rydell, he was my—one of my flute teachers, although he was a clarinet player. Really good—He played flute as well. He was amazing. Jeffrey Gilbert, he was another flute instructor but he played bass. So, I didn’t actually have a real flute teacher for a long time. I was just studying with anybody who I could get my hands on. Judy Deal was a college student that my mother got—She gave me lessons when I first wanted to take them.
TS: All right, okay.
CS: Yeah, because when I’d gotten to high school, like I said, I was, like, last chair and just not very good. But over the summer I just practiced and practiced and I was able to move up to second chair.
TS: Oh yeah, so talk about challenging.
CS: Yeah, that was always a very stressful thing, but I was highly motivated so, you know, I just practiced and practiced and practiced. And as I worked my way up the little ladder of success I—In fact, the woman who was principle flute the year I was a freshman, I would follow her around everywhere. I’m friends with her on Facebook actually.
TS: Yeah? [chuckling] 10
CS: And I told her recently, I said “You have no idea how much I admired you, and you were like a celebrity in my eyes.” And she didn’t—she had no clue.
TS: [chuckling]
CS: But, it is—
TS: It’s probably good she had no clue.
CS: Yeah, yeah. But I would just cling to anybody who could help me, you know, get better at whatever it was. But that was—And there was another woman, Kathy Clotiaux was her name, she went to the rival school and she and I were always neck and neck for all-state.
TS: I see.
CS: And I’m friends with her now on Facebook. And she’s a teacher now, but I think she’s still playing. She was a tall girl, too, which is interesting. Clotiaux, she’s a—she’s a Cajun girl. But yeah, and she was just really, really—She pushed me a little bit because we were always competing.
TS: Neat.
CS: Yeah, I had some really, really fine mentors. Also, some science teachers that I just loved that got me really interested and motivated in science, but like I said, I had to make a decision, which way to go, and music kind of came easier to me. So, I went that route.
TS: But not at first.
CS: No, obviously. Yeah, that was something that I had that accomplishment that was huge in my mind at the time, you know, trying to decide, “Well, which way should I take my life and my—” you know, my dad, who actually lives in our basement, he was kind of a chauvinist and said, “You just need to marry, you know, some wealthy guy who has a cattle ranch in Texas.” I mean, he had no desire for me to find my own way, and my mom, who’s a great artist—she was a really, really fine artist. She’s deceased now, but she wasn’t—she wasn’t pushing me in any direction either. But they both said, “What? Why do you want to be trained in music?” But they let me do it and, you know, they—they were supportive, don’t get me wrong, and they loved the band. They were at every single performance that we had. So, I don’t know. It’s—When I think back, you know, even as I’m speaking now and analyze the path that I was on, I feel like I probably wouldn’t have done anything different, you know. My sister—My older sister went to LSU—LSU in Baton Rouge—
TS: Okay.
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CS: —got a journalism degree and you know she was kind of doing her own thing and I thought, “Oh, maybe I should go and do what she’s doing,” you know? Not journalism per se, but I was thinking about nursing, and they had a great music school, too. And—And nobody really said, “Yes, that’s a good idea,” or, “No, that’s a horrible idea.”
TS: So, you had to—that was all internally you had to—
CS: Yeah.
TS: And with these mentors that you had, too, maybe? Did they—Were they helping you see that it was possible for your future?
CS: Well, no.
TS: No?
CS: And I think a lot of music teachers, myself included, kind of discourage it, if you are not a prodigy. I mean, if you say, “I want to—I want to major in flute and I want to perform,” there is a realism there that, you know, a very small percentage make it to the New York Phil[harmonic]. And when you’re a student, that’s such an unrealistic goal. And of course that was my goal as well. But, I mean, while you don’t want to discourage someone, you also don’t want to lead them to a path that they just not going to fulfill.
TS: So it was a same thing like, say, you know, “You’re good athletically.”
CS: Yeah. How many people are actually—
TS: Going to make the pros or something.
CS: Yeah.
TS: I see.
CS: It was kind of like that. Although, you know, they were—they never discouraged me, and you know, a lot of students, my husband included, started majoring in music performance. There’s a huge difference between education and performance. Education, you can still perform but you could also teach if you wanted to. Performance, you are headed down a path were you—that is going to be—you’re going to be a soloist or you are going to be in an ensemble or you’re going to—you know. And so, there’s no turning back. And so education—I loved teaching, which I did a lot of it, as well, during college. I thought, “Well, that’s a perfect fit,” you know? “I like teaching and mentoring and I loved music. So I’m just going to do both.” And that’s, you know—that’s how I roll.
TS: [chuckling] So, what point did you decide—So, as you’re going through high school—
CS: Yes. 12
TS: —and you’re not really being push by your parents or even your mentors in high school. When do you make a decision for where you’re going to go to college and continue your education?
CS: Sadly, I was led by a trumpet player.
TS: Is that right?
CS: [chuckling] Yeah.
TS: Sadly?
CS: Yeah, it wasn’t the best—I don’t think it was the best choice and, you know, like I said, my parents were so not hands on at all. They were encouraging but they weren’t going to tell me, “You are going here.”
TS: Right.
CS: Well, over the summer—I was playing saxophone in the jazz band and over the summer I wanted to go to jazz camp. And so, my parents were so gracious and allowed me to go, and I met this trumpet player. It was really my first boyfriend, kind of, you know? I didn’t really date a whole lot in high school, and I just fell in love with this guy. And so, he lived in New Orleans, he said, “I’m going to Loyola.”
And I said, “I want to go too.” And so, I decided I wanted to go to Loyola and then we broke up. [laughing]
TS: [chuckles] But you finished in Loyola.
CS: Yes, it’s a wonderful school; really, really wonderful music education program. And I guess the thing that I regret is that it cost my parents a lot. I mean, it was a private Catholic school, and I just had no clue that they were, you know, sacrificing so much for me. Now that I’m getting ready to put my kids through school, I’m thinking, “Wow, I would never have allowed my child to do that.” You know, I mean, I think I got a little scholarship but it wasn’t profound at all.
TS: Right.
CS: So, once again they were incredibly gracious and said, “If that’s what you want to do, then that’s where you’re going.” Plus, it was a very dangerous city. I mean, it was not the best place to live. New Orleans is scary.
TS: Is it?
CS: Yeah, and I was living—I lived on campus initially and then I moved into a house, and somebody broke into the house and it was—it was traumatic. [comment redacted] 13
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: Where you there when they broke in?
CS: We were not.
TS: That’s good.
CS: No, I had a roommate there. [comment redacted] I don’t know what my parents were thinking, you know.
TS: [chuckling]
CS: Number one, they were paying so much money for me to go to school. Number two, it’s just a horrible dangerous city. But I think they were kind of naïve. They didn’t know what they were doing, but—
TS: Maybe—Maybe your dad was thinking you might hook up with somebody, you know. [chuckling]
CS: [laughing] You’re right, although he hates New Orleans too.
TS: Does he?
CS: We lived there too. I don’t remember how old I was but we lived on—in Gretna, was the name of it. That village actually is what it was called, because he was a marine vet and so he went to school via the GI Bill.
TS: Okay.
CS: Yes, he’s got an amazingly interesting past. But anyway, so—
TS: So then—So—But then you went on for your masters. How did you make that decision to—
CS: I—let’s see—was finishing up—I was—I was student teaching at a private boys’ school and I had a horrible altercation there.
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: About what year are we in now? 14
CS: This would be ’80—’89?
TS: Okay.
CS: Is that right? No, no, no. I’m sorry. Eighty-four is when I graduated from high school, so ’85—’88; ’88. And so, this kid, I was giving him a lesson and he trapped me in a practice room and you know, was inappropriate. I said, “You’re going to have to move.” I mean, I was pretty firm with him, and that incident just kind of threw me off a little bit. I didn’t like it. I was having a hard time with the discipline. I didn’t like having to discipline all the time, which is—I know teachers encounter—I mean, that’s half the battle. And it was so much energy, I just thought, “You know, if I do this I will never practice. I will never play again. It’s do or die time.” And so, I took a few auditions. I was playing a lot. I was gigging on my own with a trio that was doing a lot of weddings and stuff.
TS: What was it called?
CS: Blackwood Trio, I guess. Blackwood Trio.
TS: Okay.
CS: We did a lot of funerals. That was the first time that I was aware of AIDS, you know? It was a big deal down there, and I started playing a lot of funerals for gay men that were dying. I just got that connection, you know.
TS: Right.
CS: “Oh, I love that flute, so let me—I’m going to hire you for this funeral.” And I probably did about ten funerals for people who were dying of AIDS. And I loved it; I loved it. It was—it was very fulfilling to serve a purpose in that capacity where you’re helping people grieve.
TS: Right.
CS: So, very ironic now—of where I am now, because I’m [volunteering—CS corrected later] for hospice.
TS: Okay.
CS: That’s always been in the background. “How can I help people heal? How can I—” And being a professional musician is a very selfish career. It really is. It’s—
TS: Why?
CS: Well, you do spend a lot of alone time evaluating yourself and trying to improve yourself and you’re constantly introspective; “Well, how can I do this better? What—What can I 15
do to improve this?” And you’re also talking to the two selves that you are. The one that’s very self-conscious and nervous about performing and being judged by people. And then there’s the you that wants to emote and, you know, be emotional and share yourself which is very intimate. And so, you spend a lot of time by yourself.
TS: Okay.
CS: You know? And when you are actually performing it’s about “you”, sort of; “How did I do with that performance?” It’s also about your—I mean, as I matured as a musician, it is about the reaction that you get from your audience, of course.
TS: That fits in.
CS: It fits in a little bit. But, you know, as a young musician it’s all about you, you know. And so—
TS: So is it—So when you’re—I have—This is something that I have no knowledge of.
CS: Yes.
TS: Or understanding because I’m—you know, I don’t—I don’t perform in that way ever.
CS: Yes.
TS: But—So when you are performing, are you very self-aware of how—you know, how everything’s going, less than the reaction that you’re getting form the audience, then, or is it kind of combined?
CS: That’s a really good question because it depends on where you are in your musical career.
TS: Okay.
CS: As a child, or when you’re a young musician, you’re incredibly self-conscious; that’s all you’re thinking about. You could care less about the audience because you’re terrified, because you’re very exposed. It’s a personal attack on yourself that you’re—you’re judging yourself constantly. You make a crack or you make a mistake, you’re judging yourself. It has nothing to do with anybody else. And so, as an immature musician—And I’m talking—I’m not talking about prodigies because that’s a whole different level. Those kids—
TS: Okay.
CS: —they just—you know, they just—I’m talking about somebody that had to work for their musicianship—
TS: [chuckling] 16
CS: —which I feel like both my husband and I were not prodigies at all.
TS: Okay.
CS: I had to work very hard. But as you get older and as you become mature as a musician you realize that you have to leave yourself behind. You can’t be so caught up in, “Oh, that note was a little flat,” or you know, “I missed that lick,” or whatever. You have to think, “How am I going to make these people believe that there is a fawn in a forest during Syrinx [Afternoon of a Faun—CS corrected later]?” Or you know, “How am I going to—What’s the best way to approach this run so that people will feel like it’s a babbling brook,” you know. And when you start to interpret music that way, then it’s not about you anymore. I’ve got goose pimples right now—
TS: Oh neat.
CS: —thinking, you know. Because it doesn’t matter what instrument it is, you are an entertainer, and you are performing, and so it’s just kind of like acting. It’s like be—not being yourself anymore and it takes you outside of yourself, and I’ve had moments like that and it’s amazing, it’s so awesome. There are other moments where I was terrified; you know, auditioning for symphony jobs and stuff. It’s hard to get your heart calm, you know?
TS: I would imagine.
CS: So, that’s stressful and hard. But if you can let go of it, it’s very fulfilling. And I’m fortunate—I’m so fortunate that I got to perform a zillion times so that I kind of lost that fear. At the end of every performance in the air force you would do “[The] Stars and Stripes [Forever]”. You stand up in the front and you’re bum-bum-bum-bum, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, right? And so, I will never forget the first time I had to do it. I was shaking so bad, you know, even though I knew it and everything, but—and then about the thousandth time, I’m just loving it, you know; so fun.
TS: So you’re really engaged with the whole process, then—
CS: Yeah, definitely.
TS: —at that point.
CS: But that is a—That is half the battle of being a professional musician. And, you know, some people, musicians, just don’t get over that stage fright and it cripples them. They cannot perform.
TS: Is there something about, like, a perfectionism—
CS: Oh, absolutely. 17
TS: —that, kind of, can maybe be a barrier for that?
CS: Yeah, and that’s a blessing that I have—I am not a perfectionist. You would think, “Well, that doesn’t make any sense.”
TS: No, it does. It does to me, because then you can get to a different level in a different way.
CS: Yeah. Well, my husband is a perfectionist.
TS: Oh, is that right?
CS: And you know, interestingly enough, in all the research they’ve done about musicians, a lot of them are introverted.
TS: Oh, that makes sense to me actually.
CS: Really?
TS: But you tell me why.
CS: For instance, my husband, very introverted, very private, and yet he’s able to, you know, emote and be—He’s a great musician, really.
TS: What does he play?
CS: He played the tuba in the air force but he is a bass player, too, plus guitar.
TS: Oh, nice.
CS: But he was an amazing musician. So I didn’t fit that—Once again, I felt like an outsider in that realm.
TS: Because you’re not an introvert?
CS: I’m not at all. But anyway, so—What was your question again? [chuckles]
TS: Well, we were just talking about, you know, how your performance—you know, the performance itself and how over time the way you are looking at your music and your audience changes.
CS: Yes, yeah, definitely. And I—I guess [unclear]—There was something I was going to tell you about with Todd.
TS: His introvert—As being an introvert and perfectionist?
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CS: Yeah, yeah. Well I—For myself, I think that carried me further than I was supposed to go.
TS: Oh, I see.
CS: You know? Because like I said, I had to practice really, really hard for everything I got. It just did not come—necessarily come naturally to me. I feel like I was a performer before I was a flutist. And most musicians—“Oh, I picked up this cello and it was just natural. It came naturally.” I don’t think I ever really wanted to play the flute, you know. It wasn’t necessarily my instrument.
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: It wasn’t organic, right?
CS: No. I loved the cello.
TS: Oh, yeah?
CS: Oh, I love it, and I probably should have done that instead but too late now.
TS: Who knows what road you would have gone down if you had done that?
CS: True, yeah, might have been completely different.
TS: Well, now, tell me about when you went to the master’s program. So, you had this incident with this young—young man or young boy.
CS: In high school, yes.
TS: And you didn’t like that—
CS: No.
TS: —interaction?
CS: That’s right. You were—That’s the path you were headed down.
TS: That’s okay. So, yeah—So tell me what happened after that.
CS: So I took several auditions. I was finishing up that degree, and I met someone else, a singer, Robbie Wagner, and he—oh my gosh, he was just an amazing musician. He was going to go to Philadelphia to study at New School of—no, Curtis Institute [of Music], which is a very elite school for vocalists. And he was actually a bass player but he had a 19
beautiful voice. And we were doing the World’s Fair. We were—I was singing, dancing—We had to audition for it, and I got to play a little piccolo.
TS: Where was the World’s Fair?
CS: It was in New Orleans.
TS: Oh, okay.
CS: Yes.
TS: What year was that?
CS: Well, let’s see.
TS: Eighties.
CS: Yeah, I want to say ’86 but that doesn’t—
TS: Okay.
CS: Let me think.
TS: That’s something we can look up. Don’t worry about that. [The World’s Fair was held in New Orleans in 1984.]
CS: Okay. Anyway, we were working together, we were there every day for the entire summer and they gave us a stipend to go to school. It was through Loyola; they had their own stage and stuff. And he was telling me his plans and he said, “Cheryl, you’ve got to continue with your music. You’ve got to. It would be a shame not to.”
He was the encourager. He’s the one that really pushed me, because I wasn’t feeling, like, “Well, I’m not that good. I just don’t know. I’ve taken these auditions, blah blah blah.” Even though at the time, I—I was a music education major but I won a opportunity to perform with the symphony. It was a competition they opened up to performance majors but they opened it up to education majors as well, and so I got to do that. And that was amazing too. I just had that opportunity—
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: Another “key to the city” sort of moment?
CS: Yeah, exactly. So, I said, “Well, I’ll take some auditions and see what happens.” And so, I knew that in Philadelphia—Maury Panitz was the principle flutist there in the symphony, and I thought, “Oh my gosh, if I could study with that guy I’m just going to 20
be great.” And so, I auditioned there. I auditioned at Curtis—no, not at Curtis, at Cleveland Institute because they had a great music department, too, and I think those were the only two auditions I had because I was limited in terms of my funds and so—Anyway, at the time they had another music—They may still, I don’t know. It was called New School of Music, there in Philadelphia, so I auditioned for that one as well. But I think they were combining with Temple [University].
TS: Okay.
CS: And I knew that Murray Panitz taught students at Temple so that’s where I wanted to go so I could stay with him. [comment redacted]
TS: [comment redacted]
CS: Yeah, that’s right. And so, I—It all worked out. It just fell into place beautifully. I started going to school. I got a job at Pennsylvania Hospital, which I love that hospital. It’s amazing; very historic; beautiful. I love Philadelphia, although another very dangerous city, at least near Temple. Have you been there?
TS: I have not, no.
CS: Yeah, it’s a little—actually the first day I was there, there was a woman in the subway screaming, she said “He took my rent money,” and there’s a guy running toward me and I stuck my foot out to kind of trip him and he punched me in the gut.
TS: [gasps]
CS: And that was my introduction to Philadelphia, woo!
TS: Oh, good lord.
CS: [chuckles] So anyway—But I loved the school. I loved studying with Murray Panitz. I had the opportunity to hear the symphony every Friday night. We would go to McGlinchey’s [Bar and Grill] and have hotdogs there and we would get into the symphony for two dollars as students. It was probably like the best place to be as a performer; so many opportunities to play.
TS: Okay, let’s take a short break then; just a moment.
[Recording Paused]
TS: Oh yeah, we got to start again. Okay, we took a short break and now we’re back. So you’re finishing your master’s in Philadelphia.
21
CS: Yes, I’m taking a lot of auditions, I’m studying with this amazing flutist. [comment redacted] This is a guy, very old school, all of his students were women.
TS: Who was this?
CS: Murray Panitz.
TS: Okay.
CS: He [was—CS corrected later] a principle flutist in the Philadelphia Orchestra at the time under Ricardo Muti, and he smoked during our lessons [chuckles], and he would—he would say, “When I can’t play Afternoon of the Faun in one breath, then I’ll quit smoking,” because it’s a piece that requires a lot of air, and he would just play it faster and faster each time he played. [both chuckle]
He was a good guy but I—I don’t know. When you get to that level of musicianship it’s so competitive. And all of my mentors, including him, they totally could have said to me, “Cheryl ,you’re not going to make it, so just quit,” because there were so many people that were so much better than me. But I was very driven. I probably wouldn’t have listened and when people tell me that, I am going to work even harder. And so, nobody was discouraging me from pursuing it even though I knew I wasn’t a prodigy. And so, I just kept plugging along, and I was getting a lot of gigs, while I worked at Pennsylvania Hospital as a medical secretary.
TS: Okay.
CS: Which I totally forced myself onto that job. It’s—It’s ironic.
TS: What do you mean?
CS: Well, I could type okay but I was not a great typist. But I—I said that I was. [chuckles] [phone vibrating] Oh, is that you? Oh, I’m sorry.
TS: I don’t think so.
CS: I’m sorry. Let me turn that off. That’s my husband.
They were opening up a new adult day health center—is what it was called—for Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s, for people to—caregivers to drop off their folks at the hospital. It was an incredibly wonderful service for them. I mean, you could just see the—the exhausted caregivers and how much they needed that [respite—CS added later]. And I think this is the first time—When I was working there, this is the first time I had an inkling that, “Oh,” you know, “I’m missing out on this opportunity to—to—to work with people.” I mean, I can feel that desire to work in that arena a little bit.
TS: So make a connection—
CS: Yeah. 22
TS: —on that level in a different way than performing?
CS: And they—Right. And so, they—they were just opening this up, and I told them, you know, “Here’s my plan but I’m planning on staying here for a long time. I do outside gigs but I’m—” you know, “I can do this.” And Ed Horton was the director and he was—oh, I just loved him. He was a—a great boss, and I made some wonderful friends with the nurse[s] and they were very good friends and we were together for—let’s see—two, three, four years I was there at the hospital. Wonderful hospital; I loved it. And Ed let me play for the—the folks that were there. There were about thirty people and it was—gosh, it was really unusual because I was also trying to teach myself piano a little bit and so I would plunk through pieces, and here’s a good example. Let’s just say I was singing “You Are My Sunshine,” right? And I’d—So I’d play the chord, blink, [singing] “You are my sunshine,” blink, “My only sunshine,” blink, trying to find the chord.
TS: [chuckles] I understand.
CS: It’s because I—
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: I understand that completely.
CS: I didn’t really play. And so the clients would say, “She’s horrible. Oh man, she sucks.”
TS: [laughing] Would they really?
CS: Well, they were very outspoken, you know, but the next day they would say, “Cheryl, play some music for us,” because they didn’t remember, because they had Alzheimer’s.
TS: [laughs]
CS: So, that was kind of fun. I taught myself piano. And—And of course I’d play flute, too, and that was awesome. I got to perform every single day. And so, he was so gracious to allow me to do that. I just loved it. It was music therapy, which was what I originally—I forgot to mention—
TS: Okay.
CS: —originally started in before education.
TS: I see.
23
CS: That’s why I had a few science courses; just a few. But I was working with terminally ill children. So that would be when I started Loyola, and they have a great music therapy department. But I couldn’t handle it emotionally.
TS: I can see that it would be very difficult.
CS: Yeah. I can’t believe I forgot to mention that. But anyway—And that would have been the best of both worlds, but that’s what I was doing at the hospital. You know, I was doing some music therapy. And as much as I enjoyed that job, you know, of course it didn’t pay very well, and I needed to do something else. I really needed to figure out the plan for my life. And so, as I said, I was taking a bunch of auditions and, you know, there would be three hundred flute players showing up for an audition for one spot and it got really discouraging, even though I was gigging all the time. I was able to perform for big functions for doctors, and I had wonderful connections; really wonderful. But—Although I do have really good stories. It’s kind of embarrassing but I’m going to tell you anyway.
TS: All right, good, those are the best.
CS: Okay, so you had Curtis Institute. Those were the top notch prodigy, amazing musicians, and they had contracts already and they had managers. I mean, they were on the right path. Then you had these Temple students who [doorbell chiming] were just kind of doing their own thing and gigging a lot, because we would take any gig that came our way. Whereas the Curtis students, they had to get a certain amount of money and then they had to pay their manager, and blah blah blah. So, we were getting all these jobs.
Well, somebody called me and said, “Oh, I need a flute player for the fourth of July to play this job.”
And I said, “Okay, I’ll do it.”
And so she said, “Well, I just wondered can you possibly, would you mind, playing Stars and Stripes?”
“Sure, I can do that, yeah.” “Well, we want you to wear a toga and you’re going to be on this pedestal in the backyard and—” you know, it was for an architect or something. I said “Well, okay.”
TS: “How much are you paying?” [laughs]
CS: “I guess.” Well, I didn’t even ask. I didn’t have the wherewithal to even ask how much it paid. I was kind of shy about that because I just wanted the opportunity to play.
TS: I see.
CS: So I never really pursued—I never really said, “Okay, I’m going to have to charge you blah blah blah.”
TS: Right.
CS: I mean, I did after this gig. 24
TS: Okay. [laughing] This was a lesson for—
CS: Because this gig, with all the mosquitoes and all the people touching my legs and—yeah, it paid twenty-five dollars.
TS: Oh my goodness. How long were you there?
CS: About an hour.
TS: Oh wow.
CS: Yeah, it was awful. Yeah, I would never do that again, because—
TS: How was Stars and Stripes though? How’d you do on that?
CS: I’m sure it was fabulous but, you know, not worth it. The mosquitoes were awful; that’s all I remember. Just—And then these people would come up and touch my legs, because—I don’t know—they were all drunk or something. But that was probably the worst gig I ever did.
TS: Wow, okay.
CS: Yeah, and I thought there’s got to be a better thing out there. And so, that’s when I met Brian, who was a trumpet player who auditioned for the Marine [Corps] band, I guess it was, and I didn’t know—I didn’t even know there were bands in the military. I had no clue and I thought, “Well, I could audition. It’s not going to hurt, because I’m auditioning anyway” So that’s how that had happened.
TS: Who did you audition for?
CS: The air force, yeah.
TS: So why did—why would—So he was auditioning for the Marine Corps?
CS: Right, right.
TS: How did you end up auditioning for the air force?
CS: Well, I think at the time, number one, the marines weren’t looking for flutists, and what happens is they have openings in the various groups, and at that time the air force had twenty-four bands stationed all over the world. Mostly CONUS [Continental United States] but there were—there was one in Germany, one in Japan, one in Alaska—let’s see—Any other exotic locations?
TS: Asia? 25
CS: There might have been. It could have been before because I don’t remember. Oh yeah, Yokota [Air Base, Fussa, Tokyo, Japan]; yeah.
TS: Okay.
CS: So anyway, he said, “Yeah, they don’t need any flute players in the Marine—” He said, “Why don’t you audition for the—the air force guys?”
TS: Did you consider the navy or the army?
CS: No.
TS: No?
CS: Well, they weren’t—they weren’t actually actively looking for people, even though they—
TS: Okay, but the air force was?
CS: Yes.
TS: Okay.
CS: It was a freak accident.
TS: [chuckles]
CS: But thank god. Thank god I went air force, because I would never, ever want to do anything else, you know? And of course, I did all the research, as much as I could. Did we have internet back then? [chuckling]
TS: Nineteen-ninety?
CS: Yeah.
TS: It’s emerging.
CS: Yeah, isn’t that something? That’s crazy, huh?
TS: When you were talking about your typing I was thinking, “Well, you had to probably use that IBM Selectric?”
CS: That’s right, I did, yeah. Wow, that’s crazy. It was hard leaving the hospital too.
TS: Oh sure. 26
CS: But you know, it was such an adventure and I didn’t know any better. Thank god, you know, you’re so ignorant when you’re young and you just—
TS: But how old were you at this point? You’re not super young. I mean, you’re not—
CS: [chuckles] You’re right, I wasn’t.
TS: You’re not in your forties, but—
CS: But I was very naïve.
TS: Yeah?
CS: Even on my path did—not knowing what I was going to do. So, how old was I?
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: You’re about twenty-five?
CS: Yeah.
TS: Yeah, so you’re actually older than a lot of—
CS: Yes, I [was—CS corrected].
TS: —of the young people that were enlisting at that time.
CS: Yes, like you, Miss Seventeen.
TS: Yes.
CS: Yes, I was much older and that was a benefit to me in basic.
TS: Why?
CS: And yet a hindrance because, you know, I had all these young kids. I was very nervous about not being able to keep up because I thought, “Oh, I’m going to be so out of shape.”
But anyway, I took the audition, they offered me the position in Washington, and I started running and getting in really, really good shape. I was running a lot and—
TS: So you did, like, the delayed entry program?
CS: No. 27
TS: No?
CS: No, they just—
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: You just had a slot that when you were going to start.
CS: Right.
TS: I see, okay.
CS: Right, I had many months to prepare.
TS: Okay.
CS: And—Okay now, I’m racking my brain a little bit.
TS: Well, first let me ask you this.
CS: Yeah.
TS: So you—So you’re like—All of a sudden you’re like, “Well, I think I’m going to join the air force.” And what does your dad, especially, and your mother and your sisters think about that?
CS: Well, let’s see. At the time my sister had graduated, I think. She wasn’t very involved in my decisions at all, neither was the other one of course. I think, you know, my parents visited me in Philadelphia and they knew that I was kind of trying to find my way. They did not discourage me or encourage me either way. I don’t think they knew a whole lot either. We’re all just feeling naïve.
TS: Because your dad, you said, was in the Marine Corps.
CS: He was, yeah.
TS: So he didn’t have any preconceived notions about women in the military or anything like that?
CS: He—Like I said, he’s kind of a chauvinist, so I think he did give me a little grief about the fly girl thing and about, you know, “Well, you’ll just be sitting behind a desk anyway.” You know, there’s that—
28
TS: Okay.
CS: —thing going on. Marines versus [U.S.] Air Force. But I don’t think they knew what to expect because I was going in as a musician, because you don’t—you know that you’re going in as a musician. It’s not like a free for all. When you go into basic you’re already pegged, you know. You don’t have to go to any kind of training school. You just—you go to your first duty station as a musician.
TS: Oh, is that right?
CS: Right.
TS: Okay, I didn’t know it worked that way.
CS: [comment redacted]
TS: Well—So what about your friends; all your musician friends? What did they think about this?
CS: I don’t remember anyone saying, “Wow, that’s so shocking.”
TS: [chuckling]
CS: The ones at the hospital were very encouraging. They helped me get my hair cut really, really short.
TS: Oh.
CS: You know? I was a very free spirit. I just had no worries in terms of what I was going to do next. And I thought, “Well, this’ll be fun. I’ll stay in shape.” You know, I just—somewhat naïve to the whole process.
TS: Did you have any idea, like “Okay, I’m going to do this,” and you signed up for—what? —four years?
CS: Yes. Yeah.
TS: Okay, and then it wasn’t like, “Oh, this is the rest of my life.”
CS: Definitely not.
TS: Okay.
CS: And especially when I got to my first duty station; like I said, it was not a good band. It was not a good—I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into?” There—I—I just didn’t know enough about the whole process. I knew that once I 29
finished basic training I would go there and I would just start performing. And I knew it was a field band. And a field band is very different than an elite band. There’s—I’m talking about the [Washington] D.C. bands.
TS: Okay.
CS: Now, I knew—I didn’t even know about the [United States Air Force] Academy Band in Colorado, really. I didn’t know that much. But I knew about the ones in D.C. and that’s the one I wanted because those were good; I knew they were. This one, I got there and I was just so disappointed because I thought, “Oh gosh,” you know, “I’m better than this.” And that’s horrible to say, but it’s true.
And so, I kind of plotted along. I was practicing. I did my own recitals. I performed and taught private lessons. I did as much as I could to improve my musicianship. They provided the instruments too. I had my own but the air force provides beautiful, amazing instruments, so I used one of theirs. There were some good musicians and I did a lot of outside gigs. And there were [sic] some frustration because there were really some amazing musicians and then not so much. Now, that has changed a lot but we’ll get to that. And then the commander was a flutist himself and he—Mark Peterson was his name; wonderful man; really supportive. He’s the first one that I talked to. In fact, I auditioned for him and he is the one that told me, “Well, this band is not going to be around much longer,” and I didn’t have any idea about the other bands. I didn’t know about their quality, whether they were good or bad or—So I decided I was getting out. And somehow or another, either he or somebody talked me into staying.
TS: Wait a—What point did you decide you’re getting out? Are you getting out—
CS: Well—
TS: —like, within the first year of being in the—
CS: No, I knew I had four years.
TS: Okay.
CS: But—
TS: But that—But that you’re going to do that and that would be it.
CS: Right.
TS: Serve your time, sort of thing?
CS: Exactly.
TS: Okay.
30
CS: In my mind I thought, “I got to get out,” you know?
TS: Okay.
CS: The air force part didn’t bother me. But my mind set was musician first, air force second; this is a vehicle only to get to a—a better place.
TS: That’s an interesting point for me, because I’ve talked to a lot of nurses, and the culture of nursing and the culture of the military are different.
CS: Yeah.
TS: And I would think that a musician’s culture and the—you know, a military culture also—
CS: Oh, you are so right. They just do not go together.
TS: Can you explain how they’re maybe—
CS: Yes.
TS: —have the—how they have, you know, that oil and water sort of—
CS: Yeah. Well, I’m surprised to hear that from a nurse, because that seems like, you know, they’ve got their protocol and they have to be exact and blah blah blah. So, that doesn’t make any sense—
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: Well, there’re similarities for sure.
CS: Right. But, you know, musicianship is ethereal. It’s artsy. What? It has nothing to do with the military that is regimented and it’s got to be exactly this way and you—you know, you serve your country and you don’t serve yourself, or—you know, it’s not fun; [both chuckle] “Stop laughing and having fun!” But—So that is a really, really good point. They absolutely don’t seem to go hand in hand.
Now, that said, things did change for me. My attitude changed, everything changed, and we’ll get to that a little bit later. But initially, when I first got in, I obviously had a very selfish motive, and I think a lot of people do. Either they you to—they want the air force or the military to pay for school, [comment redacted]. Well, I had an agenda, of course.
TS: What was your agenda?
31
CS: I wanted to perform and I wanted to study. They give you private lessons. You can study with anybody in the country you want to. So, if you go TDY [temporary duty] somewhere—
TS: Really?
CS: Let’s say I’m in Montana, and I want to take a lesson with the principle flutist in Montana, they will cover the cost of that to help you improve as a musician. So, I loved that. Of course, they provide you with the best equipment. And so, I had all these huge advantages, and I was using every bit of it to improve as a musician. I—I did not have any interest—I obviously had a little interest in serving my country, a little bit, but that was not my intent initially, at all. Obviously things changed a little bit, but you know, I had very selfish motives, and I was getting in shape; I lost thirty pounds in basic training. I was in the best shape of my life.
TS: Well, tell me a little bit about basic training. You skipped right over that pretty quickly.
CS: Oh, yes.
TS: Because I’m curious about, you know, you being twenty five and a lot of young eighteen, nineteen year olds.
CS: Yeah.
TS: So, was there anything that was particularly difficult for you in basic training?
CS: [chuckling] Well, I actually was in better shape than most of those kids, but I think it was because I prepared for it so much. I mean, I just kicked that track’s butt in my boots, you know? I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the discipline of it. But of course, I was a dorm chief and I ended up at the top of—And I had a TI [training instructor] that was—really, really hated me. Now, it could have been—He told me—He got in my face and said I reminded him of his ex-wife. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know.
TS: Playing with your head a little.
CS: Maybe so.
TS: Maybe, yeah?
CS: And even though I was really, really good at being good and following directions, I was a target probably because I was older and I was going to the band.
TS: And you were—
CS: I don’t know if it had anything to do with my height.
32
TS: I don’t know.
CS: Maybe. But—So it was the last day of basic training and he[?] was being inspected by an officer; something like that. And we were missing a person, I had to go get them, and I think I forgot to give a reporting statement. He said “That’s all I needed to recycle you,” and so he recycled me for two weeks.
But—And my parents had come for my graduation, and all this stuff, and at that point, you know, I was trying not to—I never got emotional at all. I thought, “This is a process. We’re just going to get through it.” When somebody got in my face and was yelling at me, it’s like I—it just completely blew right over my head. I—I thought, “Well, this is just temporary.” You know, they hold up a candy—candy bar to the door and say, “Let me in.” [both chuckle] I just thought that was so funny. I did take it seriously, but I thought, “Okay this was just a process we had to get through.”
TS: Were they trying to bribe people to open the door with the candy bar?
CS: Well, you’re supposed to show your ID and say—and you’re supposed to say, “Can I see your authority to enter?” And they would just put whatever they had up there, and of course you’re supposed to say, “I’m sorry. I need to see some ID.”
TS: To see if you will challenge?
CS: That’s right.
TS: I see.
CS: That’s right. Or if you’ll say, “Hey, I am T—You need to let me in right now.”
TS: Right.
CS: And of course these kids would open the door.
“You’re never supposed to open the door unless you—” So it was—
TS: I just hadn’t heard about the candy bar. That’s funny.
CS: Oh, yeah.
TS: I didn’t get a candy bar.
CS: Oh well, we never got to eat it but—
TS: So you got recycled?
CS: I did, for two weeks. I bowled for two weeks. I became a very fine bowler.
TS: You are very determined aren’t you? 33
CS: [laughing] Yes, that’s right. So, I didn’t know any—It didn’t bother me. I thought, “Well, we’ll just wait and see what happens next.” [comment redacted]
TS: Well, it does sound, kind of, a little bit more harsh—well, actually, much more harsh than—
CS: Yeah. I heard he left a couple months later. He had a nervous breakdown or something.
TS: Interesting.
CS: But I also had—The next TI that I had was wonderful. He was really good. I—I didn’t mind basic training at all. I thought it was great.
TS: Physically it was okay. Emotionally it got—
CS: Physically it was wonderful. Emotionally, yeah, there’s that. But I hope that it’s changed a little bit.
TS: For what way?
CS: Well, you know, there were a few people who probably should not have been in the military and they pushed them through. You know what I mean? I—A little unstable. It’s hard to say in a stressful environment like that, but I remember a couple of these girls just having little meltdowns, and I’m thinking, “You need to go home,” or physical problems and they pushed them through.
TS: Yes.
CS: [comment redacted]
TS: [comment redacted]
CS: [comment redacted]
TS: [comment redacted]
CS: [comment redacted]
TS: [comment redacted]
CS: At the time maybe they were just desperate to get folks in, but I would hope they’d be really, really—Well, I know there’s a stringence—stringent process. You have to take a lot of tests and such, so maybe that’s changed a little bit. But at the time I thought, “This person should not even be in the air force,” and maybe they did fine but—
34
TS: Maybe once they got through basic they were okay.
CS: Yeah.
TS: But you never—Of course, then you see people that you’re serving with that you’re like—
CS: Yeah.
TS: —“Yeah, How’d you get through basic?” [chuckles]
CS: I know, I—Yeah, I did wonder that with some people.
TS: So you get to your first place and it’s not someplace that you’re—as far as the music, goes, right—
CS: Yes.
TS: —you’re all that crazy about?
CS: Right, I was highly disappointed.
TS: Highly disappointed. But you’re only there eight months, right?
CS: Right, and I knew there was hope in sight, and I knew there was an opportunity for me to go to Japan. I was so excited to go. I thought, “Well—” Oh, they did offer the option of getting out. You could, because they were shutting that unit down. You could cross-train, get out, or go to a new duty station.
TS: Oh, okay.
CS: And so, that’s why I did have the option of getting out. That’s what I had planned on doing.
TS: I see.
CS: But then I could either go to California or Japan. How cool is that, you know? “I would love to go to either one of those, so I’d better stay in.”
TS: Okay.
CS: Well, as it turns out I couldn’t go to Japan because I didn’t have enough time in service and you needed enough rank, and so I—I didn’t qualify for that. “California sounds pretty cool, I’ll do that.” So, I show up there and it’s an old World War II barrack and—
TS: Where’s it at? 35
CS: It’s in Riverside, California.
TS: Do you know what the base was?
CS: March Air Force Base [now called March Air Reserve Base].
TS: Okay.
CS: Yes, and it’s out in the middle of nowhereville, there’s no potable water, and it’s the middle of summer; it’s very hot, you know, when I show up there. I’m sweating like a pig and I walk in and a trumpet player—I didn’t know he played trumpet but you can figure because he—
I said “Hi, I’m looking for Colonel L.—” or, at the time Captain L. was his name.
He said, “Welcome to hell.”
And I thought, “Oh lordy. This is going to be fun.” And that guy is still in; [comment redacted].
TS: The one who said, “Welcome to hell.”
CS: Yeah, “Welcome to hell.” He’s a character. Trumpet players have a very distinct personality [chuckles] and he certainly did.
TS: What kind of personality do they have?
CS: Oh, very arrogant, self-assured. I dated three of them.
TS: [chuckling]
CS: That was not good but—you know, they’ll tell you how good they are. It’s just kind of a general—
TS: It’s like a pilot.
CS: Every—sort of, yes. Every instrument attracts certain people, I guess.
TS: Interesting.
CS: It is interesting, and I do kind of fit the profile for a flutist but that was an accident because I was supposed to play drums.
TS: That’s right.
CS: Which I don’t have a profile for at all. [both laughing] That wasn’t really for me.
But anyway, so I met the commander there, [comment redacted]. I think he was a captain at the time, but an amazing musician. Oh, he had vision, amazing vision, for what 36
he wanted to with his ensembles. And I was excited because there were some good musicians there and it was looking pretty good. There were more people. More old—older individuals. You know, most of the bands had young folk and maybe a few out of high school. Most had some college. And that’s kind of the attraction for the bands. It was getting better and better. They were attracting better and better musicians. And—I mean, there were a few that probably shouldn’t have been there. But Colonel L.—I keep calling him colonel because he retired as a colonel but he was a captain at the time—he had great vision for his musicians. He pushed them so hard. He wanted a good group and so I think—I don’t know how the commanders did it—and all the commanders were officers, all the musicians were enlisted—and he must have, kind of, traded people; “I want that guy. Give me that guy.” Because at the time, you know, you switched bands all the time as you—as your rank increased you had to go and serve overseas, you had to go do this duty.
TS: So you had sort of a checklist of where you could be depending on your rank and time in service?
CS: Right. Well, you have your dream sheet—
TS: Right.
CS: —which determines where you want to go but you obviously never get to go where you want to go.
TS: What was on your dream sheet?
CS: All of the foreign places.
TS: Yeah, like Japan and Europe?
CS: Yes, yes exactly.
TS: And [Washington] D.C., was that still on your list?
CS: No.
TS: No?
CS: No—Well, I had been monitoring whether or not there were openings, but there weren’t. There wasn’t going to be.
TS: That’s just like a place people stayed?
CS: Oh yes.
TS: Like later when you got to Colorado. 37
CS: They will stay until, you know, they’re twenty years or beyond. And that’s the way those jobs were because—very, very elite. But when I was in California—and like I said, I was only there for two years—but during that time we met so many celebrities and we did so many high profile gigs because of the commander, because he knew exactly how to network.
TS: Can you talk about a favorite one that you did?
CS: That is where I met [President] Ronald [Wilson] Reagan, and that was the most exciting thing; the nicest man. Actually, I have a picture I will give to you of me, starry-eyed, shaking his hand.
TS: [chuckles] Great, okay.
CS: Horrible hair though; not him, me, back in the day.
TS: Okay.
CS: We got to play for all—for [Mikhail] Gorbachev when he was visiting The [Ronald] Reagan [Presidential] Library [and Center for Public Affairs]; played for all—there were five living presidents.
TS: Nixon?
CS: No.
TS: Oh, he was—Ford?
CS: Ford.
TS: Carter.
CS: Carter.
TS: Bush.
CS: Yes.
TS: Reagan.
CS: Yes. Oh, you’re good. And then we played for the Pope; Pope John Paul II when he came into town. Our commander was Catholic so he was just loving on that. We played for Air Force One, the movie. He loved the—doing the movie. We—As a band we were in that movie.
38
TS: You were?
CS: Air Force One, I think it was—
TS: Yeah?
CS: —with Clint Eastwood. [Actor Harrison Ford actually starred in Air Force One]
TS: Sure.
CS: Yeah, and we did a—My ex-husband did a Mel Gibson movie. I mean, we were stand-ins for all of these movies because we were in California.
TS: What was that like?
CS: Kind of grueling. You know, you spend all day on the set doing stuff like that, but we were introduced to the high profile, you know, arts, the Hollywood thing, and that was kind of fun and exciting meeting celebrities. We met—
TS: Was there anybody you were like—
[Speaking Simultaneously]
CS: —Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver.
TS: Was there anybody you were like, “Oh my gosh, they were—they were just horrible?”
CS: No.
TS: Everybody was just really kind?
CS: Oh yeah. Well, you know, I don’t know about your experience but mine, I felt so guilty all the time because people would say, “We’re so thankful for you. Thank you for serving.”
And I said “I’m—I’m just a musician. I don’t play on the front lines or anything.” So I felt a little guilty because I was having so much fun in California. I was playing a lot, I was meeting all these celebrities, I was getting to—I was getting to solo a lot. This commander took advantage of the fact that I wanted to play. I learned how to play Native American flute and was featured on a recording doing that. He did a lot of recording projects, which I loved. And in fact, there were so many musicians that stayed in California; they worked on soundtracks and they worked in studios, and these were really fine musicians. Finally I felt like, “Wow, this is kind of my thing.” I got to do some recording work in professional studios there and tons of gigs and it was wonderful.
39
TS: So if I were to ask you, Cheryl—
CS: Yes.
TS: —tell me about a typical day.
CS: Yes.
TS: Did you really have one?
CS: Well, it depends on where—which location and what time in my life. But at that particular band, we lived in the building that we—that old World War II barracks.
TS: Oh right, yes.
CS: And so, the bottom floors were where we rehearsed, the second floor were the offices, and the third floor is where I lived. And—
TS: What’d you think of those conditions?
CS: Well, I didn’t care. It was kind of strange because I was older. I should have had my own home by then, maybe had kids and a family and, you know—so I felt like, “Well, I guess this is the military life. This must be the way it’s supposed to be.”
TS: So you’re, like, in the barracks?
CS: I live in the barracks which is, you know, not the best scenario. But I had my own room and, you know, I was there with twelve other people, maybe, that—
TS: On the floor?
CS: —eventually they moved on base, but during that time they were in that building. So I just lived, breathed air force, you know. That was my life and all the people I associated with were all the people I worked with, and we were just a small unit of, you know, people that all had the same vision, which was the commander’s vision.
Now, he was kind of a tyrant. I mean, he had a bad temper and he wanted things exact—he was a great musician, wonderful piano player, but we had our share of drama and that was my introduction to commanders that—there were a lot of commanders that created a lot of drama. I just didn’t know it yet because [my first commander—CS changed later] was so docile and wonderful.
TS: What kind of drama would be created?
CS: Well, for instance, my ex-husband was a clarinetist in the air force. That’s what—I met him in California. And he did the operations for—He booked the gigs for the units, and the commander wanted a grand piano at every location. Now, keep in mind that the 40
sponsors were members of the community. Everything was sponsored. The air force did not pay for us to perform.
TS: Really?
CS: For instance, later in my job at the Air Force Academy, I was the ops [operations] director for the—the concert band. So I would call up a business; let’s say I’d call a local newspaper. At the time the newspapers were great sponsors and I would say, “Hey, we have a great band that would like to perform for your community and we want to make it a free concert;” obviously, it has to be free. “And this is the night we want to do it and here’s what we need. We need a stage. We need a grand piano. We need this many stands and chairs. We’re going to need support here, et cetera.” And so, that’s how every gig went. And the person that had to arrange all that was at the mercy of the commander. It had to be exactly what he wanted. Not all commanders were like that. And then he also had to book all the hotels for the people. He had to get the transportation for all the people. And he had to make all the arrangements.
TS: So logistics officer mostly?
CS: Yes. Sometimes it was very easy to do, other times it was challenging, because you were in a community that just didn’t have anything. So you’d have to drive—especially out there. It’s a regional band so you stayed in that region. But you know, if you’re traveling in Montana, there’s only a few places in between. You would have to travel on a bus for six hours to play at the next location. It’s definitely a young person’s gig because we also unloaded the trucks. We set up. We did all of the manual labor and then we performed a concert.
Anyways, so this commander wanted things exactly the way he wanted them. And if he didn’t get it he would just go off on the ops director, which happened to be my ex-husband at the time. And so, he didn’t get a grand piano for one location. There was some kind of—And he—So he just went off on George, and George had had it; he’d been doing it for a long time.
Eventually he just blew up and said, “You cannot—You cannot make these demands on people. They’re just blah blah blah,” and he just—you know.
And the commander said, “Okay.”
TS: After all that time.
CS: Yeah.
TS: He just—
CS: He didn’t know. He just said “Yes, sir Yes, sir. Yes, sir.” Finally he just had it and said “Well okay. Well, let’s try and work something else out.”
Well this commander also called me into his office once when I—I agonized about getting married to [redacted], who as I said was a clarinetist, because I took the audition in Colorado not knowing if I would go or not and I knew they were shutting the 41
band down in California. And once again, they give you the option, you can get out, you can go to another location, you can cross train. And I was enjoying it, I really loved playing, I was starting to really like it a lot, and you know, I was getting some rank and enjoying the process so I wanted to move; I wanted to go to Colorado. And [redacted] had asked me to get married and I said, “No.” I said no probably about ten times. I didn’t want to get married because I knew was I going to be leaving. And so, I won the audition and I told him, “Okay, we’ll get married.” We were separated for a year, making plans to get married. It was not—I should never—
TS: So you’re in Colorado and he’s still in California?
CS: Yes. Yeah. And he was going to get out.
TS: Oh, okay.
CS: Yeah. He had planned to get out. It wasn’t his thing. [comment redacted]
[Speaking Simultaneously]
TS: You’re not married yet. You don’t have kids yet.
CS: Yeah.
TS: Yeah.
CS: So, I just felt that pressure and—Anyway, so I got the job in Colorado and talk about amazing musicians. Oh my gosh. Everybody in that band had a degree in music or they were, you know—and I guess at that time there were so many things changing in the career field, as they still are.
TS: About what time did you get there? It was, like, in the early nineties, I think, right?
CS: Let’s see. No. I was—In 1990 I joined. That was ’94.
TS: Mid-nineties then?
CS: Ninety-four-ish—right.
TS: So you’re close to your reenlistment date?
CS: Right.
TS: Okay.
42
CS: I had to reenlist in order to go.
TS: I see. Okay.
CS: And that commander—Colonel G. was his name; another amazing musician with wonderful vision. I really adored him. But he said, “Well, we want to offer you the job, and here’s what you’re going to be doing.”
So it wasn’t just—I mean, all of the jobs, it’s not just playing. You know, you don’t just sit there and play. So a typical day at that job, and things changed as we progressed, but you go to a rehearsal from nine to noon, and then you have a lunch break, and then in the afternoon you back into rehearsal from one or one-thirty until four. And you were—but you weren’t just in one group. He encouraged playing a lot of different instruments, using different talents that you might have. I’ve always wanted to sing, so one of my best friends was a vocalist and she helped me, kind of, to develop my voice a little bit. So he allowed me—he let me sing. Of course, I played the flute in the concert band. I also played in a woodwind quintet. It was a wonderful quintet. It was probably my favorite experience because of the group of five people and we got to pick our own music. There was little more freedom because, you know, when you play in a concert band there’s a certain set. You got to play, you know, the Armed Forces Medley and you got to play Stars and Stripes and you got to play patriotic tunes. You got to do—mix it up a little bit.
TS: Mostly military type songs?
CS: No, not necessarily.
TS: No?
CS: No. He, another great visionary, you know, utilized some of the really amazing composers. They commissioned composers to come in and write pieces.
TS: Oh, really? Wow.
CS: Oh, yeah, wonderful. So we got to do a lot of really fun literature. Got to do a lot of soloing with the band and I also played—let me think—a flute and guitar thing. I did some of that. As I said, I got to sing. I didn’t ever pick up the saxophone again because I just was never very good at that. [comment redacted] [both chuckling]
TS: Did you ever get the piano down?
CS: No, no. I was never—I mean, the piano players—oh my gosh, amazing piano players. There’s a hotel in Colorado Springs called the Broadmore Hotel and it’s the—a six star hotel, and actually, one of the com—composers, arrangers for the Air Force Band at the time, is now in charge of the music at this hotel, and he was [a] brilliant, brilliant arranger. So they—they encouraged you to do that. You write music, you arrange music, but not only that, I was also starting to book gigs. That’s—I really have an interest in 43
doing that. Some people—Some of the musicians there—All the musicians, some work in the library and they do that, some do operations, and some work in the finance. Some—It’s self-supported, completely.
TS: Oh, okay.
CS: So you double duty.
TS: It’s like a business.
CS: Additional duties, yes. And you really—They like to shuffle you around, because when you do your EPRs [Enlisted Performance Reports] it has to look like you are well-rounded, and so they move people around to various positions. And so, I was excited about that because I wanted to do other stuff. I really enjoyed that aspect of the job too. So he allowed me to book gigs for the concert band and—so I was just really, really enjoying my career. And things started to change for me. I mean, obviously I had a lot of personal things going on in my life but I also started to finally realize the effect that I was having as—not only a musician, but as an airman. I started to feel very proud of being in the air force. Oh my gosh.
TS: What kind of triggered that, do you think?
CS: Well, that’s a really good question. We performed for thousands and thousands of people. And when we would play for the armed forces the Armed Forces Medley, all the veterans would stand up at various times. And of course, people would come backstage after the concerts, and I met the most remarkable, mostly men, who served in World War II, Vietnam, and it was amazing. I would hear their stories and I started to develop so much pride that I was part of that legacy. And I felt so undeserving of it. These are people who gave their life, and we hear it all the time, “Oh, let’s stand for these people that gave their life,” Well, I really felt that. I really understood it. I started to really grasp, you know, the role of the military, and that I got to meet real people who served. And we started playing at VA [Veterans Affairs] homes that—the most amazing jobs that we did.
And so, I became so emotionally attached to airmen and to the process of what we were doing, how we were serving, and I realized we were making a difference. And so, that was a huge turning point in my career, where I realized, “I am making a difference in some lives and I get to perform. What!? That’s the best thing ever.” And so, I found my niche, I loved it, and I was staying in; I was going to make a career of it.
In the meantime, I had so many personal crises. It’s weird how one kind of goes to hell in a hand basket and the other one just flourishes. I mean, I was really doing well in my job, but my husband and I split. [comment redacted], and we had our two small children. I was TDY [temporary duty] all the time. He was home with them. [comment redacted] My parents moved to Colorado.
TS: Oh, they did?
44
CS: Yeah, they did. My mom was diagnosed with colon cancer in—in Louisiana. Things were doing poorly. My dad had to retire and I had my schizophrenic sister that was living with them, and so they all moved to Colorado to be near us. And I was hopeful that my mom would recover; you know, obviously hoping the best. That was just an amazing miracle that happened. They sold their house. They moved here. She got chemo[therapy]. I don’t know how it happened. We found them a house. Did I say here? I meant in Colorado.
TS: Yeah, no, I understand. It’s okay.
CS: I meant Colorado. They got set up. My sister got a beautiful house to live in, a group home. Everything fell into place. We were just so blessed. And she, my mother, had to have an operation to try and remove the cancer which had already metastasized but—and they could not afford that. And so, my dad went down to reconcile the bill and they said—they said, “Well, it’s already covered, somebody paid for it” And to this day we don’t know who paid that bill.
TS: Oh my gosh.
CS: Obviously, I think it might have been her bridge club friends or something. But, I mean, it was just one blessing after another, and so when they moved to Colorado we had a wonderful time. She lived for five years after her diagnosis and we had so much fun. Then my dad’s mother got really ill and she moved to Colorado in a home that was close by us; really beautiful assisted living place. And so, that was a really wonderful time that came to an end in one year. It was just—My mother died, my husband had to leave, and my grandmother passed away. And during all this turmoil I was pregnant. I had, you know, the two boys, and the air force was amazing. Oh my gosh.
I told my chief, I said “Listen, my mom’s dying. I want to be with her. I want to sit with her while she’s having chemo.”
And they said, “Take all the time you need,” you know. “Just go ahead and do what you have to do.” [comment redacted] And they were so gracious. It was amazing.
So I was there when she went to hospice and when she passed away. Probably the most traumatic thing ever in my entire life was the death of my mother. But like I said, the air force provided counseling for me, they provided counseling for my children, you know, as I was going through the divorce.
TS: Yeah.
CS: And, you know, I feel like that year was just—I was so overwhelmed with so much and I got through it, and if I can do that and maintain my job and everything, you know—It was amazing.
TS: Yeah.
CS: I can’t believe I went through that, and of course, I healed but—
TS: Well, the idea—So—So you were a single woman. End of Part One.
Interview continues in Part Two.